Perspective on mental health supports in society

seattle prattle wrote:

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Yeah, that's Kenya, where $1000 can make a big difference in life...

The median annual wage in Kenya for 2019 was $7,000 approx.

I think that kind of goes to Greg and Roy's point. If you increase your standard of living by a large margin, you can improve your mental health.

I think the big issue in this thread is the conflation of clinical definition of depression vs the general idea of being mentally unwell. For those clinically depressed, really no amount of material goods is likely to help, and thus it can affect any demographic.

But depression in general lexicon also just means feeling mentally unwell. Greg is almost correct when he discusses that having more friends and material can help relieve this feeling. In reality, it's not the actual amount, but your amount relative to the amount you perceive others around you have. This is well documented in literature.

Material wealth and social relationships are certainly a guard against general feelings of "depression"--but not cases of the medical variety, especially when brain chemistry issues are involved.

Greg wrote:

You put your credentials out there and I'll go in with none, yet still confident I will get the better of you in a debate format

Greg,

I’m not here for a debate because there’s nothing to debate.

Because you didn’t study this topic, you lack the knowledge to differentiate sadness, situational depression, and depression disorders.

In your OP, you entangled these three very different topics.

You assume everyone obtains happiness from the same things. You assume everyone has similar goals in life.

You ignore the very real, very common issue of hereditary depression.

You insult those who suffer from depression and those who try and help them.

You got about 10% right - certain situations can SOMETIMES impact someone’s mental health. It’s by no means a meaningful predictor of who will develop depression - both situational and disorders.

Read up on this if you really care to learn more. Until then, try not to put down those who are already struggling.

OK first you state you aren't here to debate, so then why are you here? Clearly you want to discuss this..

Second there's nothing wrong really with what I said. I said it before I'll say it again: If people take issue with what I'm saying, they should look at themselves, not me. It's an online message board. Take posts seriously but not TOO seriously.

Third you claim I didn't study this topic. Well, true, I haven't gone to school to be a councillor or therapist, but I do have first hand experience with depression. I am qualifiesd to talk about my own life experience.

If you read my posts you know that I often cite the word 'belief' because it's an important word. It's one of my favorite words too. You claim 'You assume everyone obtains happiness from the same things. You assume everyone has similar goals in life.'

No, that is incorrect. That is your belief of what I state. I'm not even going to bother to read what I originally posted at this moment, though I may go back to it.

Common sense says people have different goals in life and attain happiness in differnet ways, however, I think you are not grasping (maybe by choice?) the fact it's common sense that financial stability and freindships will improve mental health.

If you disagree with this then I cannot really take you seriously. In general terms, that is completely an acceptable thing to say and to suggest otherwise is absurd.

With due respect, I think you are posting in a similar tone to the poster who claims to be a psychiatrist.

You sound like a therapist of some kind and want to refute what I'm saying on the basis of your education and training and want be to know about your opinion.

Remember, it's ok to have your opinion and not have to post for a third or fourth time about it.

I read your initial posts. At least to your credit you don't get as emotional as the 'psychiatrist'.

Emotional control is #1 in any arguement or debate. When you get emotional you are losing or your points will not come across well.

I don't really have much else to say about this thread. I'm not closed to discussing it, but I do get a kick out of people wanting to claim I am 'wrong'.

No I am not wrong. I am opinionated like many people on this earth. I have a right to my opinions as you do to yours.

Greg wrote:

I don't really have much else to say about this thread. I'm not closed to discussing it, but I do get a kick out of people wanting to claim I am 'wrong'.

No I am not wrong. I am opinionated like many people on this earth. I have a right to my opinions as you do to yours.

How about "your opinion finds no correspondence in reality"?

brtb wrote:

Greg wrote:

I don't really have much else to say about this thread. I'm not closed to discussing it, but I do get a kick out of people wanting to claim I am 'wrong'.

No I am not wrong. I am opinionated like many people on this earth. I have a right to my opinions as you do to yours.

How about "your opinion finds no correspondence in reality"?

It appears my opinion does have basis in reality. Not only has it been stated by myself but it has generated some discussion.

If you don't agree with this, then I urge you to re-consider what the word 'reality' means to you.

Another word I love is reality.

Belief.

Reality.

Outcome is another.

Greg wrote:

brtb wrote:

How about "your opinion finds no correspondence in reality"?

It appears my opinion does have basis in reality. Not only has it been stated by myself but it has generated some discussion.

If you don't agree with this, then I urge you to re-consider what the word 'reality' means to you.

Another word I love is reality.

Belief.

Reality.

Outcome is another.

A few months ago you said you would stop your rapid hair loss through belief. How's that working out for you?

I am all for positive thinking and believing in oneself, but you confuse "belief" with "I am Greg. I am always right."

brtb wrote:

Greg wrote:

It appears my opinion does have basis in reality. Not only has it been stated by myself but it has generated some discussion.

If you don't agree with this, then I urge you to re-consider what the word 'reality' means to you.

Another word I love is reality.

Belief.

Reality.

Outcome is another.

A few months ago you said you would stop your rapid hair loss through belief. How's that working out for you?

I am all for positive thinking and believing in oneself, but you confuse "belief" with "I am Greg. I am always right."

My hair is fine. And you're correct, I am often right. Not always, but often!

This is a messed up thread! I see delusion, disconnect from reality, suppressed anger, controlling and manipulative talk....and plenty more.

My brother is bipolar and you(Greg) are EXACTLY like him. So according to what you say, my beliefs and my experience allow me to KNOW that you are bipolar, you can not argue with that, it is MY experience and MY beliefs. But you know what? The outcome is the same: you need a lot of mental help and I hope you seek it before you do something harmful to yourself or anyone else.

liar wrote:

This is a messed up thread! I see delusion, disconnect from reality, suppressed anger, controlling and manipulative talk....and plenty more.

My brother is bipolar and you(Greg) are EXACTLY like him. So according to what you say, my beliefs and my experience allow me to KNOW that you are bipolar, you can not argue with that, it is MY experience and MY beliefs. But you know what? The outcome is the same: you need a lot of mental help and I hope you seek it before you do something harmful to yourself or anyone else.

hmmm.. thanks for that very insightful grin grin

This is no joke bud, your thread is a cry out for help, go get it, it’s ok. This is not gonna end well if you don’t.

Surely I’m not the only one who sees this...?

Greg wrote:

Third you claim I didn't study this topic. Well, true, I haven't gone to school to be a councillor or therapist, but I do have first hand experience with depression. I am qualifiesd to talk about my own life experience.

Well, this is like saying I am qualified to talk about my training experience because I have trained for a few hobby jogger races. And if Jack Daniels disagrees with me, I can say "that's what you believe" and what I believe is equally relevant.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, right? After all, this is just a message board. Who can tell Daniels knows more about training principles than I do? ;)

liar wrote:

This is no joke bud, your thread is a cry out for help, go get it, it’s ok. This is not gonna end well if you don’t.

Surely I’m not the only one who sees this...?

No, you aren't the only one who sees this. It's pretty clear that Greg posts on LR pretty much exclusively during manic episodes.

The thing is, there's really no point in trying to convince Greg of anything. He has no insight into his own condition, and no amount of rational explanation is going to make a dent.

So yeah, we all see it. But Greg doesn't and can't see it, and there's really nothing to be gained by trying to make him see it.

Elvin wrote:

liar wrote:

This is no joke bud, your thread is a cry out for help, go get it, it’s ok. This is not gonna end well if you don’t.

Surely I’m not the only one who sees this...?

No, you aren't the only one who sees this. It's pretty clear that Greg posts on LR pretty much exclusively during manic episodes.

The thing is, there's really no point in trying to convince Greg of anything. He has no insight into his own condition, and no amount of rational explanation is going to make a dent.

So yeah, we all see it. But Greg doesn't and can't see it, and there's really nothing to be gained by trying to make him see it.

That is scary. My brother was EXACTLY like that, same kind of verbal diarrhea just before he would go BUCK WILD for a few hours to a few days. This individual can be and probably is dangerous, he’s a lose cannon

I recall a study in the U S finding happiness increased with income up to around $75000. It was from 2010

Here is the Time article about it

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html

Also, mental illness can cause a drop in income/social status.

Social connection has a major impact on mood, as does exercise and time in nature.

To a certain extent this is God and football. OK it doesn’t HAVE to be God and football, but those are means of exercise, time outside and social connection.

It could be Buddhism and ultimate frisbee.

Regardless, we have a society with increasing social isolation, less time outside, less exercise, and increasing financial inequity. The treatment: Prozac.

I am not knocking meds or evidence-based therapies, and for the doctor treating the individual they are appropriate interventions, but to a certain extent, I feel they allow us to ignore the toxic environment that we as a society have created for ourselves.

Also good treatment should try to address some of the social issues contributing to the illness.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Greg wrote:

Third you claim I didn't study this topic. Well, true, I haven't gone to school to be a councillor or therapist, but I do have first hand experience with depression. I am qualifiesd to talk about my own life experience.

Well, this is like saying I am qualified to talk about my training experience because I have trained for a few hobby jogger races. And if Jack Daniels disagrees with me, I can say "that's what you believe" and what I believe is equally relevant.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, right? After all, this is just a message board. Who can tell Daniels knows more about training principles than I do? ;)

What I'm saying is that I can draw from my first hand experience at draw my own analogies on what I believe to be true.

Look, life has been quite difficult for me for many years. However, I've also found some hapiness along the way. A now deceased relative of mine had bad depression and it really effected him.

Genetically, it's fair to say I have some of this because I am closely related to him.

However, when some of you suggest I am bi polar you are only stating your belief.

I find that to be a bit cruel, but, it's your life. And when you say 'well this guy is delusional and blah blah blah' and you just want to make fun of me, it sounds silly on your behalf.

Ultimatley there are a few facts:

Fcts about me:

1. I have dealt with mental illness and will continue to deal with mental health for the rest of my life. I am feeling ok at this particular time but will probably feel down again at a certain point. it's inevitable. Some of the posts on here, despite the visciousness of their intent and words, are starting to really have a minimal effect on me.

2. I ran respectable, not GREAT, but respectable PR's years ago and I do believe this aggravates a few of the less talented or less achivers, athletically speaking on this board.

Again, I am aware that by LRC standards my PR's are relatively pedestrian, but I do get the sense some of you want to poke at me. You want to say 'oh well he's a goof, he's ill' and so forth and it's your right to say those nasty things because this board allows it.

But when you attack my PR's then I know I've got you because even though my PR's aren't GREAT, they took some work and talent and they are superior to some of you.

So with my PR's I do get the satisfaction of knowing that some of you slowpokes are pretty pathetic because you are 4:52 milers or whatever (still not bad, but I ran about 12 seconds faster and would have dusted you) and your only way to attack me is claim I am mentally ill.

3. Fact, I will enter the mayoral race in Edmonton unless my screenplay is produced. I will get 100 signatures. I am very very confident I will and perhaps in a few weeks you will see my name on the city of Edmonton website as a registered, declared candidate. Then a lot of you can continue to hate but nothing will change the fact I am a candidate. Whether I win or not remains to be seen but I will certainly do my part to partake in the race.

I know this fact infuriates some of you becuase you must lack the confidence to enter politics or put your political ideas out there. For that I can only say well, get off your asses and do something about it.

The fact I've got business cards, have door knocked, have legitimate ideas and have signatures should tell you guys I am serious about my political career.

The fact you guys just want to hate on me when you are too lazy to just focus on your own life is quite frankly sad and amusing.

Say what you want about me but these are the facts.

Again I'll repeat them because some of the posters on this board have a hard time with facts

1. The posst on the board fail to bring me down. Yes, sometimes they do have some effect, but i am determined not to let them get the better of me. I would venture to say it is impossible to use the English language against me to your benefit. Absolutely impossible.

2. I am far from the fastest poster on Letsrun yet my PR's put some of you to shame and it probably bites you.

3. I have a poltical career that is off and running and this probably aggravates some of you.

I'm 3 steps ahead of many of you.

If I wasn't, you guys wouldn't be saying the things you do.

liar wrote:

Elvin wrote:

No, you aren't the only one who sees this. It's pretty clear that Greg posts on LR pretty much exclusively during manic episodes.

The thing is, there's really no point in trying to convince Greg of anything. He has no insight into his own condition, and no amount of rational explanation is going to make a dent.

So yeah, we all see it. But Greg doesn't and can't see it, and there's really nothing to be gained by trying to make him see it.

That is scary. My brother was EXACTLY like that, same kind of verbal diarrhea just before he would go BUCK WILD for a few hours to a few days. This individual can be and probably is dangerous, he’s a lose cannon

I hope your brother got appropriate treatment and is doing OK. I will say most adults with Bipolar Disorder have at least some insight for a significant amount of the time. The big problem is the tendency to think that what is in fact, a little bit manic is their ”normal.”

People with autism can talk a lot too.

I have been talking to you for over a year and I have no idea what your PRs are: I doubt many others do.

I think you are wrong on that point. Oh right, but it is your belief that blah blah blah...

trashcan wrote:

liar wrote:

That is scary. My brother was EXACTLY like that, same kind of verbal diarrhea just before he would go BUCK WILD for a few hours to a few days. This individual can be and probably is dangerous, he’s a lose cannon

I hope your brother got appropriate treatment and is doing OK. I will say most adults with Bipolar Disorder have at least some insight for a significant amount of the time. The big problem is the tendency to think that what is in fact, a little bit manic is their ”normal.”

People with autism can talk a lot too.

I think it's interesting that poster 'Elvin' believes I have bipolar when I have never been diagnosed as such. Despite his beliefs, unless a real medical professional has made such a diagnosis, his speculation is purely speculation.

I am also at liberty to speculate he is a bipolar. Perhaps he is also an alcoholic, obese and may have a criminal record. Again, these are all posibilities and I have every right to believe poster 'Elvin' as an example meets all of this criteria.

That would not make him a bad person to be a bipolar, obese alcoholic criminal, but maybe that is just reality for Elvin and he is struggling with his circumstances.

Good luck Elvin.

You are a rude man.