Tinman implementing double workouts

Do you think it has anything to do with them being at sea level camp right now?

I like this move from Tinman as I think it addresses many of the criticisms people have with their method - mainly lower volume & intensity. Double workouts should in theory increase the stimulus?

On a different note I find it disappointing that they seem to be not sharing these double workouts on their stravas however correct me if I’m wrong.

Jgt11 wrote:

In the past couple weeks, I have seen Tinman Elite doing double sessions. One was a 5-mile tempo in the AM then a 6*600m with some sprints(150 or 200m) in the pm, then recently another session which had them on the track in both the AM and PM. Maybe Tinman is seeing the benefits of dual workouts from other coaches and is implementing them now or knows his athletes need more intensity as they gear up for an Olympic year. Either way, it's interesting to see how these fit into his philosophy.

Is this the reason why Parsons left the group?

1) Parsons did NOT leave the group. Please don't let LRC trolls get to you so easily...

2) There is ONE workout on Strava that I've seen do a Tinman athlete do a double workout recently. It's their long-distance/marathon specialist Reed Fischer, who did the workout you prescribed on 1/12:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4609854057

(AM Tempo)

https://www.strava.com/activities/4611717009

(PM 600s and 150s)

This doesn't really mean anything.

Tinman is a scientist. All he has ever done, and based his own coaching philosophy (which isn't really more than a combination of 4332 other philosophies out there), was to look - what have other great coaches like Lydiard, Stampfl, Bowerman, etc. done in the past? What have swimming coaches or lactate experts like Olbrecht done in the past? What worked for myself/other runners and what didn't work?

So it is not out of the question that he "discovered" double workout days recently, and is starting to prescribe them to some of his elite athletes who he thinks would be able to handle this type of training. His philosophy was always - hard days hard (but not "run-to-the-well hard"), easy days very easy. Double workout days fit well into this simple philosophy so why not prescribe his marathon specialist a double workout?

Does it mean he would prescribe it to his 15/16/17/20/25 min 5k hobby joggers? Does it mean he would prescribe it to his upcoming 50-60/65 mpw HS kids? No, he probably isn't going to drastically change his training system.

And I think that's the perfect way to use double workouts - use them on highly fit, elite runners to reach the next level. I still think it would be a mistake for the average 17 min 5k 50mpw LRC guy to start doing double workouts twice a week, but it might help his elite runners to get just a few seconds faster which will help them in their preparation for trials and Tokyo/Olympics.

That's Bill Dellinger training.

30/30s on Monday

Double workouts on Tuesday relatively light

Double workouts on Thursday relatively light

Big Kahuna workout on Saturday.

Perhaps he finally realized his professional group was training at the same level of his high schoolers and he needed to up the intensity.

Finally he may catch up to the likes of Ingebrigtsens, Mike Smith at NAU, and Ben Thomas at Oregon who have been implementing these ideas for many years.

Most guys don't post much on strava. It posted on their Instagram that they did a workout AM and PM. In the picture were most of the guys, not just Reed,

Tinman injures all his athletes with his standard approach. Implementing double workouts on top of that will only add to the carcrash.

Looking at the details, I wouldn't call Reed Fischer's double "more intensity" or a change in philosophy at all. The morning run was a 5 mile tempo at target marathon pace (5:05 or so). Remember, this is a guy who last year ran 61:37 for a half marathon, which is 4:42 pace, so 5:05s for 5 miles is not all that difficult or tiring for him. Then the afternoon workout was 6 x 600 at 5km pace with a slow 600 jog recovery, so pretty light too. I'd say this squarely fits with Tinman's "keep the ball rolling" and "no hero workouts" philosophy.

Jgt11 wrote:

In the past couple weeks, I have seen Tinman Elite doing double sessions. One was a 5-mile tempo in the AM then a 6*600m with some sprints(150 or 200m) in the pm, then recently another session which had them on the track in both the AM and PM. Maybe Tinman is seeing the benefits of dual workouts from other coaches and is implementing them now or knows his athletes need more intensity as they gear up for an Olympic year. Either way, it's interesting to see how these fit into his philosophy.

Can you confirm that Mike Smith and NAU are now doing the double threshold sessions as well? I have heard some chatter about it on the boards here and curious what that would look like in its application to high level collegiate athletes.

I have been following Julien Wanders on strava since he switched to working with Canova, and it is just embarrassing to be a US distance running fan seeing the amount of work that he is putting in compared to some of our best US runners who also post on strava. The workouts are higher in volume, faster, more frequent, and often with block sessions in one day... it is no wonder we are still we behind in the marathon and half marathon.

I just looked at Wanders’ strava, and I am astonished...130 mpw is crazy. I wish there was more insight on Cheptegei’s or Kiplimo’s training.

130mpw isn’t that crazy. Molly Seidel (a woman) had 3 weeks in a row at 125mpw during her last build-up. More American men should be running 130+ and we’d see the sub 2:07s start springing up. Randos like CJ Albertson suddenly getting good prove that

130 mpw is crazy? How so?

Politically Incorrect wrote:

Can you confirm that Mike Smith and NAU are now doing the double threshold sessions as well? I have heard some chatter about it on the boards here and curious what that would look like in its application to high level collegiate athletes.

What better example than his girl?

Han Solo wrote:

Finally he may catch up to the likes of Ingebrigtsens....

I hope this change is because Tinman has been reading the research on Gjert Ingebrigtsen’s training plans for his children.

Just saying, I’d buy an overpriced “Gjertman Elite” shirt so fast...

Politically Incorrect wrote:

Can you confirm that Mike Smith and NAU are now doing the double threshold sessions as well? I have heard some chatter about it on the boards here and curious what that would look like in its application to high level collegiate athletes.

I have been following Julien Wanders on strava since he switched to working with Canova, and it is just embarrassing to be a US distance running fan seeing the amount of work that he is putting in compared to some of our best US runners who also post on strava. The workouts are higher in volume, faster, more frequent, and often with block sessions in one day... it is no wonder we are still we behind in the marathon and half marathon.

yeah except Wanders has done that for a while and very often underperforms at races because he's burnt out

Look at how much of those 130 miles is run faster than 3 minutes per kilometer and no matter what you think of as being a high global volume, you will be quite astounded at the level of quality work that he is putting in and doing so week in, week out.

he was happy with 59:55 at Valencia, lets see what RAK brings

Jgt11 wrote:

In the past couple weeks, I have seen Tinman Elite doing double sessions. One was a 5-mile tempo in the AM then a 6*600m with some sprints(150 or 200m) in the pm, then recently another session which had them on the track in both the AM and PM. Maybe Tinman is seeing the benefits of dual workouts from other coaches and is implementing them now or knows his athletes need more intensity as they gear up for an Olympic year. Either way, it's interesting to see how these fit into his philosophy.

This is a Canova philosophy. Look it up.

Uhhhhhhh wrote:

Jgt11 wrote:

In the past couple weeks, I have seen Tinman Elite doing double sessions. One was a 5-mile tempo in the AM then a 6*600m with some sprints(150 or 200m) in the pm, then recently another session which had them on the track in both the AM and PM. Maybe Tinman is seeing the benefits of dual workouts from other coaches and is implementing them now or knows his athletes need more intensity as they gear up for an Olympic year. Either way, it's interesting to see how these fit into his philosophy.

This is a Canova philosophy. Look it up.

Yes of course it is Canova philosophy, and yet somehow the brilliant scientist Tinman has failed to implement it in any meaningful way.

There are of course more than one way skin a cat but I mean, come on, Canova has left so many training examples out there of what has worked for world record holders and gold medalists, how could one look at that and then come up with a 5 mile tempo and then 6x600?