"there is so much we don't know about the vaccine"

every human being is a participant in this giant science experiment, maaaaaannn

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I've read it constantly. Like how we don't know if it stops you from being contagious.

We don't know safety for pregnant women of the fetus. Safety for people with weakened immune systems.

At least that's all stated and discussed. Fine. But what really bothers me is this.

We don't know the long term effects at all. Wtf!?!? When you look it up they just say, no long term effects have been reported.... Of course not the long term hasn't happened yet.

How on earth is this how we approve something nearly the whole world will take!?!?

Fine. Step out of line then. I’ll take mine as soon as it’s my turn.

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I've read it constantly. Like how we don't know if it stops you from being contagious.

We don't know safety for pregnant women of the fetus. Safety for people with weakened immune systems.

At least that's all stated and discussed. Fine. But what really bothers me is this.

We don't know the long term effects at all. Wtf!?!? When you look it up they just say, no long term effects have been reported.... Of course not the long term hasn't happened yet.

How on earth is this how we approve something nearly the whole world will take!?!?

What is your solution? No vaccine approved for 30 years?

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I've read it constantly. Like how we don't know if it stops you from being contagious.

We don't know safety for pregnant women of the fetus. Safety for people with weakened immune systems.

At least that's all stated and discussed. Fine. But what really bothers me is this.

We don't know the long term effects at all. Wtf!?!? When you look it up they just say, no long term effects have been reported.... Of course not the long term hasn't happened yet.

How on earth is this how we approve something nearly the whole world will take!?!?

There are plenty of non-mRNA vaccines using time tested strategies on their way. If you are worried then just wait for the normal vaccine; that is the best option, particularly for the younger populations who are not even that susceptible to the virus.

obviously testing pregnant people and immuno deficient people is far more complicated (aka time consuming) that normal people.

should we have waited another 6 months or a year or more for preggers and immuno deficient, or got on with it like we have?

Mandatory self isolation for the susceptible population. And let it circulate through normal population till herd immunity is reached. Vaccinated the susceptible population .

Force people to eat a fvking salad.

Ban smoking.

Use the literal trillions of dollars in "battling" corona to fix global hunger, the climate crisis, wealth inequality, etc which we've already spent enough to fix several times over. We would hae saved millions upon millions of more lives this way.

Every single problem that we "don't have the money to fix" we've already spent on covid several times over. For far less gains. And less lives saved. It's completely idiotic what we focus on.

I think we should know the safety of something before we are basically forced to take it. It will be required for travel and lots of other things soon enough.

I've already recovered from covid it was mild.

Also I'm not bothered by a few million people dying when we have over 8 billion and have some weird obsession with our population needing to grow endlessly... Just ... Because?

Elderly can be vaccinated. If you're morbidly obese. Fine get vaccinated. But don't ruin my life because you couldn't eat a god damn salad.

Harambe wrote:

What is your solution? No vaccine approved for 30 years?

What if it causes cancer after 31 years?

The sensible truth is this - the old school style vaccines (Oxford) work in the same way as every other vaccine that's been around for 100 years - they infect you a tiny little bit with the virus, so your body develops immunity. So there is nothing to worry about here.

The new vaccines (RNA) have been studied intensely by very clever people in the UK and USA. More studied than almost anything else you put in your body. They've been tested way more than most preservatives that go into farming your food.

E.g. What's the long term affects of eating Chlorinated Chicken? Nobody knows. Yet people will gladly chow down on <insert state name here> Fried Chicken.

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

Mandatory self isolation for the susceptible population. And let it circulate through normal population till herd immunity is reached. Vaccinated the susceptible population .

Force people to eat a fvking salad.

Ban smoking.

Use the literal trillions of dollars in "battling" corona to fix global hunger, the climate crisis, wealth inequality, etc which we've already spent enough to fix several times over. We would hae saved millions upon millions of more lives this way.

Every single problem that we "don't have the money to fix" we've already spent on covid several times over. For far less gains. And less lives saved. It's completely idiotic what we focus on.

Bravo. Great post.

At this point you are just trolling. You were told in another thread that natural herd immunity is not a viable option. See Brazil, Manaus.

Mandatory self isolation is not a viable option. People need food, care, etc. It's also inhumane to cage old people so you're not inconvenienced.

Honestly, is this Jamin?

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I've read it constantly. Like how we don't know if it stops you from being contagious.

We don't know safety for pregnant women of the fetus. Safety for people with weakened immune systems.

At least that's all stated and discussed. Fine. But what really bothers me is this.

We don't know the long term effects at all. Wtf!?!? When you look it up they just say, no long term effects have been reported.... Of course not the long term hasn't happened yet.

How on earth is this how we approve something nearly the whole world will take!?!?

Lots of reasons to be concerned.

But watch the lemmings attack

Wake up people. If the government really cared about health they would ban smoking, trans fats, aspartame, drinking but they just want the money and control. If they can eliminate small businesses it just means more power for their beloved (and govt owned in some cases) large corporations and of course the evil big pharma corporations. Of course the sheep do not have the capacity to comprehend any of this and never will.

[quote]definition of a bandit wrote:

Wake up people. If the government really cared about health they would

Not drop tens of thousands of bombs on people every year.

1) we are getting extremely encouraging data on transmission prevention. You would want more specifically designed studies (my understanding is that they are in process), but I feel extremely confident that it will be high enough to reach herd immunity (95% reduction in symptomatic infections. Before the second dose a 62%reduction in symptomatic infections).

2) a virus or a live vaccine will produce all of the intercellular processes of an mRNA vaccine plus a lot more and in a much less controlled manner (I.e. self replication). I would feel safer looking down the road taking the mRNA vaccine. It is not like we are devoid of examples of long term effects from viral infections, although coronaviruses and adenoviruses would admittedly be low on my list for long term concerns.

3) for people with weakened immune systems (in particular Due to HIV, it might not be the best alternative. For people on immunosuppressant medication probably safer than a live vaccine, but vaccines don’t work well on patients with immune compromise. This is one of the reasons to try to achieve herd immunity, so those folks can function freely in society.

4) the kind of long-term study you would want would make it impossible to combat any pandemic. Additionally, if this thought process applied across the board, it would render all medical research financially impossible—the study costs would expand enormously (they are already not cheap) and the delay for the payoff would increase equally..

5) our world is becoming increasingly pandemic-friendly with increasing population and travel. Coming up with strategies both for intervention and response before the next pandemic is something that needs to be part of the post-Morten for this one. MRNA vaccines make a lot of sense for pandemic response as they have the extremely quick turnaround time you need. A much better plan for testing and contact tracing is also needed.

6) hopefully the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine will be available here., Do you think people should take that one? I will say that efficacy both against symptomatic and asymptomatic infections(needed to produce true herd immunity) appears to be worse than the mRNA vaccines. Side effects in the short term certainly don’t appear better.

From a national perspective, this has cost an enormous number of life-years, and is on pace to cost a lot more, while I am not in favor of indefinite shutdowns or sacrificing the development of our children, getting vaccinated is quite a modest sacrifice to get us through this and protect the vulnerable.

definition of a bandit wrote:

Wake up people. If the government really cared about health they would ban smoking, trans fats, aspartame, drinking but they just want the money and control. If they can eliminate small businesses it just means more power for their beloved (and govt owned in some cases) large corporations and of course the evil big pharma corporations. Of course the sheep do not have the capacity to comprehend any of this and never will.

Have you followed what happens whenever a government makes a push in that direction? The same pushback occurs as with the vaccines. Personally I would favor taxing all these items (possibly further tax in some cases) and compensating for the regressive nature of that tax elsewhere in the tax code. But I would sincerely appreciate it if you invested your effort into addressing one of those issues. I would recommend aspartame and trans fats personally as there actually is a strategy on tobacco and alcohol, and, of course, there is the 21st amendment.

The thing I find confusing is why so many people care about the long term effects of the vaccine but don't care about using their new 5G phone or having 15 WiFi devices in their house.

These same people also don't tend to care about things we know are harmful, like burning candles inside and all the other things that lead to indoor air pollution, or wearing tight boxer shorts or eating and heating food in plastic containers.

you must enter a username wrote:

The thing I find confusing is why so many people care about the long term effects of the vaccine but don't care about things we know are harmful, like burning candles inside and all the other things that lead to indoor air pollution, or wearing tight boxer shorts or eating and heating food in plastic containers.

How many of those things are shot directly into our bodies?

you must enter a username wrote:

The thing I find confusing is why so many people care about the long term effects of the vaccine but don't care about using their new 5G phone or having 15 WiFi devices in their house.

These same people also don't tend to care about things we know are harmful, like burning candles inside and all the other things that lead to indoor air pollution, or wearing tight boxer shorts or eating and heating food in plastic containers.

This is kind of whylong ago i and much of my close friends and family have turned to eating healthy and avoiding likely or potentially harmful foods, energies and substances. Blows my mind when someone is worried to death about a tiny amount of mercury in a fish but excited to inject a conconction of chemical substances directly into their blood stream. Especially with the GMO-food equivalent that is the covid vaccine.

I am aware of what I was told, but I don't agree.

But to be fair if brazil is indicative of the whole world, I agree it would be challenging but possible.

And my points stand about the allocation of resources and # of lives saved. If that is your desired metric. But also lots of other benefits to my plan in my other post. Like cleaning up the environment for example. Helping wildlife. Ending global hunger. The list goes on and on.

If your real goal is saving the most lives. This is not the way to go about it.

I disagree about the old people thing you just said. We are already forcing so much of the world into lots of restrictions, including mandatory self isolation and quarantine for FAR MORE people than my proposed plan. And If you let it spread through the healthy population quickly, while vaccinating the sick elderly obese etc, the pandemic ends sooner! Which is actually more fair to the at risk population.

In my mind it's incredibly smart and fair to selectively apply restrictions. We do it anyways with tiered restrictions in regions just as an example.

Mandatory self isolation is quite tricky, I agree.... Except that we do it already with so many people lol. They can still get food and whatnot. As for medical care I agree that's tricky. I'm sure there's a solution though. I never said caged by the way. Don't hyperbolize.

I swear I am not jamin and I don't post under any other handles.