!!! NewBalance FUELCELL MD-X !!! they break the shoe rules

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Yes a curved plate can flatten under load and return to its original shape in a spring fashion. Congratulations on pointing out this absolute gem of an insight.

However the orientation of the curvature matters with respect to the location and direction of the applied force - I already gave the practical "u" vs "n" shape example with respect to these shaped plates. With the parabolic "spoon" shaped plates we are seeing in these products the applied force would need to be simultaneously at the very end of the toe and at the point at which the plate flattens (it's referred to as the "aft" point or 326b in the patent) for it to cause flattening. This can't happen because the force applied to the plate travels longitudinally down the plate from the heel towards the toe and by the time this force gets to the toe it is not even imparted on the "aft" point due to the foots takeoff angle of around 25 degrees associated with the human gait cycle. The resistance is required at both points simultaneously to create flexion. Any decent engineering undergrad should be able to understand that.

The plates aren't springs. The plate serves multiple functions - creating a longer ankle levers, immobilizing the MTP joints and maximizing the resiliency (or spring) of the foams they are used in conjunction with. The plates on their own do not flex in a manner that would allow them to act as springs. Don't believe me? Educate yourselves.

https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a20849486/nikes-magic-shoes-what-if-they-really-work/

"Is that all because the shoes have springs in them? Well, yes and no. “Virtually all modern running shoes already have springs,” Kram says. “We call them foam midsoles.”

"That’s the view of Nike’s designers, who see the carbon-fiber plate’s benefits as a result of stiffening the shoe rather than adding any energy return. The “parabolic” curve of the plate, rather than adding springiness, serves to minimize wasted energy at the toe joint and optimize ankle position, they say. From Kram’s perspective, too, the spring in the new shoes is primarily provided by the foam, while the carbon-fiber plate probably functions more as a lever."

https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/training/carbon-fibre-plate-tech-the-calgary-connection/

"The goal was to try to make the shoe behave more like a spring. Stefanyshyn and his colleagues were not entirely successful at this, but they did find that the addition of the carbon fibre plate removed some of the energy loss, so the athlete had more energy to execute the movement."

"Recent studies have found that while the introduction of a curved carbon fiber plate minimizes energy loss, it doesn’t behave like a spring, exactly. And those commenting on the Nike Vaporfly 4% and NEXT% in particular speculate that the spring-like bounce produced by the shoe comes more from Nike’s ZoomX foam than from the plate. Here’s what Stefanyshyn has to say about that: “From all of our research on plates as well as foams and cushioning materials, I speculate that both play a substantial role in the improvement.”

there's your +1

I'm off to lecture my dentist like a real a$$hole.

lol know your facts wrote:

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Yes a curved plate can flatten under load and return to its original shape in a spring fashion. Congratulations on pointing out this absolute gem of an insight.

However the orientation of the curvature matters with respect to the location and direction of the applied force - I already gave the practical "u" vs "n" shape example with respect to these shaped plates. With the parabolic "spoon" shaped plates we are seeing in these products the applied force would need to be simultaneously at the very end of the toe and at the point at which the plate flattens (it's referred to as the "aft" point or 326b in the patent) for it to cause flattening. This can't happen because the force applied to the plate travels longitudinally down the plate from the heel towards the toe and by the time this force gets to the toe it is not even imparted on the "aft" point due to the foots takeoff angle of around 25 degrees associated with the human gait cycle. The resistance is required at both points simultaneously to create flexion. Any decent engineering undergrad should be able to understand that.

The plates aren't springs. The plate serves multiple functions - creating a longer ankle levers, immobilizing the MTP joints and maximizing the resiliency (or spring) of the foams they are used in conjunction with. The plates on their own do not flex in a manner that would allow them to act as springs. Don't believe me? Educate yourselves.

https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a20849486/nikes-magic-shoes-what-if-they-really-work/

"Is that all because the shoes have springs in them? Well, yes and no. “Virtually all modern running shoes already have springs,” Kram says. “We call them foam midsoles.”

"That’s the view of Nike’s designers, who see the carbon-fiber plate’s benefits as a result of stiffening the shoe rather than adding any energy return. The “parabolic” curve of the plate, rather than adding springiness, serves to minimize wasted energy at the toe joint and optimize ankle position, they say. From Kram’s perspective, too, the spring in the new shoes is primarily provided by the foam, while the carbon-fiber plate probably functions more as a lever."

https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/training/carbon-fibre-plate-tech-the-calgary-connection/

"The goal was to try to make the shoe behave more like a spring. Stefanyshyn and his colleagues were not entirely successful at this, but they did find that the addition of the carbon fibre plate removed some of the energy loss, so the athlete had more energy to execute the movement."

"Recent studies have found that while the introduction of a curved carbon fiber plate minimizes energy loss, it doesn’t behave like a spring, exactly. And those commenting on the Nike Vaporfly 4% and NEXT% in particular speculate that the spring-like bounce produced by the shoe comes more from Nike’s ZoomX foam than from the plate. Here’s what Stefanyshyn has to say about that: “From all of our research on plates as well as foams and cushioning materials, I speculate that both play a substantial role in the improvement.”

there's your +1

I'm off to lecture my dentist like a real a$$hole.

LMAO this article is from 2017. The shoe game changed 200% since then. what are you even talking about.

BelgianT&Flover wrote:

interesting topic. the new balance fuel cell md-x spikes: underrated and very low key in comparison to the new nike spikes (air zoom victory & dragonfly) but in my opinion (and a lot of other runners) it's maybe a better version than the new nike line up.

Nick willis (2 time 1500m olympic medallist) dropped this on his twitter about the nb spikes: "OK, I'm a believer in the new spike tech. Ran 2 seconds faster than expected for a time-trial tonight. Wore the NB version that everyone has been tearing it up in."

Other runners (eg jake wightman) smashed records in these ones as well.

but here is the interesting fact: they aren't available for sale. this is against the new shoe rules. everyone was going insane when the nike line up releases too late but the NB's just never came out and nobody is talking about it. It's weird, everyone is chatting about nike and brands like NB can do their thing without resistance!