Please help me think through a major life decision, moving to Denver from DC

Flagpole wrote:

darkwave wrote:

Regarding Flagpole's comments about DC - I think that DC is to intelligence as NY is to style and money or LA is to celebrity. Being smart here is just valued in a way that it's not in those cities.

CORRECT! Valued and necessary for the majority of the non-service jobs in DC and the surrounding area. My brother has a Ph.D. and a JD, and he works on drug patents. So, WHY is his office in the DC area? The United States Patent and Trademark Office headquarters is in Alexandria, VA.

DC is a heck of a lot more about who you know than intelligence compared to San Fran and in my limited experience Boston. My experience is DC has a lot of smart people (call it IQ 130) but I have never meet any one I would consider a genius (150+ IQ). In SF there are plenty of them (and most of them will tell you :)). Nobody looks at things like PhD as a sign of intelligence when pretty much everyone has one.:) Maybe I am just hanging out with the wrong crowd. Obviously we are taking degrees as both are important in both places. Your brother isn't in DC because of how smart the people are. He is there because that is where the USPTO office is. If that office moved to Boise, they would move his office.

And having lived in a bunch of these places, you will find the people that have only lived in one have the same delusion that their place is really unique and the best city in the world. They really aren't that unique or special. If you field has a center there (i.e. DC has the federal government, NYC has finance, SF has tech, LA has entertainment,...) , you have a great reason to pick one over the other. But after that? Personal preference.

Old Man Runners wrote:

Colorado is the next gen state now that is way ahead at policy and thinking than every other state. For example, it was the first state to use legal weed revenue to fund education.

This is absolutely NOT TRUE. This is how they campaigned for it however pretty much every district has yet to receive a penny from pot tax. Yet CO decreased education budget because the influx of pot to education money.

As an add- only $40 mil from tax goes to education. This may seem like a lot however with 4,866 schools that works out to about $8,500 per school. Ya that money goes a long long way ?

imoneofthemtoo wrote:

As an add- only $40 mil from tax goes to education. This may seem like a lot however with 4,866 schools that works out to about $8,500 per school. Ya that money goes a long long way ?

Same with the stupid state lottery + gaming tax revenues. A different kind of greenwashing.

I lived in DC for 2+ years in my early 30s. So I will just comment to that aspect.

I hated dating in DC. Everything felt so transient. Dates seemed over after 5 minutes, whatever their impression was at that point was never going to change. There was a lot of "can we be a power couple" vibes going on. If that's your thing, maybe you like it. After I moved back to the midwest, I immediately started having much better success with (IMO) much higher quality partners. I think there is a lot of BS involved in DC dating that will likely go away in Denver.

Or maybe I just sucked at finding good dates.

You mention fearing the blandness. There is a lot going on in DC; more than you could ever do. So to me, the question was "do I need 10 options this weekend, or is 5 enough". And I now live somewhere with mediocre outdoors options.

Ultimately, I would say you are 24 and never been out of DC. It is time to get our of your bubble and see how other parts of the country feel. I didn't stay in DC, but look back on that time as a time of growth and experience.

I would agree with another poster that no move is permanent. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages and what those are varies from one person to another.

"Culture"? I care nothing about operas or plays (and really not big into concerts either) so someone making that argument is making an argument meaningless to me.

"Diversity" is likely way more important if you are in a minority group. Some people will point out food options. Pretty sure in Denver you are going to find whatever kind of food you would want.

Weather: what a person likes is going to vary. For me the days of sunshine and incredibly bearable winters are superior on the Front Range to the Mid-Atlantic or midwest. The former often has "wet cold" that to me is brutal. I have been running in tights and a light jacket on a sunny day in Colorado in temps in the 20s and felt great. That same run in Wisconsin (where I once lived) would have been brutally cold feeling.

Traffic---yeah Denver can be bad, but I cannot imagine it being worse than DC (based on limited experience there). The truth is that when you first arrive you will probably think it is so great and not sure why everyone is complaining. In 6 months, your threshold will have reset and you will be complaining about it too. (I base this on the experience of moving from Atlanta to Colorado Springs). But your results may vary in that perspective.

You are closer to superior skiing in Denver than in DC. Yes, you drive (or there is a train to one--or was) so what?

There are pro sports teams in the Big 5. Good road racing scene within 75 miles (covers Boulder and Colorado Springs---once the interstate is finished between you can make it in an hour easily depending on where in Denver you are leaving from).

Dating everywhere seems to be problematic. So if it is that way then be a place that likely brings you happiness in other ways. Also you likely will find people who share your interests so that would be a good thing.

COS is growing fast wrote:

By 2050, Colorado Springs will be the largest city in Colorado, surpassing Denver.

Former ski bum wrote:

Never, ever.

Greeley and Fort Collins will more than double in population and the Western Slope will grow by two-thirds by 2050, the State Demography Office predicts, while Denver, Boulder, Pueblo and the central mountain resorts will grow at slower rates. Also, El Paso County will overtake a built-out Denver County as the state’s most populated.

DC is about who you know IF you have the proper education. Some things:

1) You never met my wife in DC then. She IS a genius by any measure. Both of my children are also geniuses, but my son wasn't born yet when we lived there, and my daughter was only 1 year old then. For the record, I am NOT a genius, but I DO have an advanced degree, so I AM educated.

2) Anecdotal evidence is not valuable. I ALSO lived in SF and DC, and while I DID know some smart people in SF (lived on Stanford's campus in graduate student housing after all), I met more brilliant people in the DC area. Though, the smartest person I have ever met WAS a graduate student at Stanford.

3) Here's ONE list of the most educated cities/areas in the country -

- Ann Arbor is listed as First (and ironically, I lived there too), San Jose is second, and DC is third. I submit that DC still is the most concentrated area of highly educated/brilliant people in the country; and Ann Arbor is a tiny town, so that's a HUGE outlier here IMO. SF is listed as 5th, and Boston as 7th.

There's something you're a little confused about because you're mixing terminology. Denver Metro >> Denver County. City of Denver == Denver County. El Paso County != COS. Metro Denver = Denver County, Arapahoe County, Douglas County, Adams County, Broomfield County, Jefferson County, and even Boulder County. El Paso County contains COS along with other municipalities like Monument, Fountain, Manitou Springs. El Paso County is 2130 square miles, Denver County contains just under 155 square miles. So of course El Paso County has more space to add more population than Denver County, but El Paso County to City of Denver is not apples to apples. Maybe if COS annexes El Paso County land to expand its city limits, but not by 2050. More like 2100.

I suggest moving to Laurel MD first. It’s like Colorado but low elevation so no shortness of breath and wakeful nights. Plus you’re not far from DC whenever you get homesick.

If Laurel works out then after a year move to Wyoming. Colorado is becoming an overcrowded sh!thole. Wyoming is the next big thing. Good luck.

Flagpole wrote:

3) Here's ONE list of the most educated cities/areas in the country -

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/most-and-least-educated-cities/6656

- Ann Arbor is listed as First (and ironically, I lived there too), San Jose is second, and DC is third. I submit that DC still is the most concentrated area of highly educated/brilliant people in the country; and Ann Arbor is a tiny town, so that's a HUGE outlier here IMO. SF is listed as 5th, and Boston as 7th.

Take the lawyers out and see how the list changes;) You will note that the list doesn't have SF as 5th. It also doesn't have DC as 3rd. I might be willing to accept calling the Arlington as part of DC but nobody considers Oakland part of SF.

OP seemed interested in a better dating environment.

Didn't even mention a good job opportunity or transfer as the motive to move to Denver.

Years ago when I was making such choices, Dallas was the place to go. Never saw so many hot women, unless one knew where to go in West Hollywood.

What's popular has changed.

DC was always about women seeking to connect with men with power. That's why there are so many women to men on the Hill, but you are not what they are looking for and you will get nowhere. Georgetown was the spot to meet women back when I was there, and it was also about wealth and power.

Denver was popular because of the weather and proximity to skiing.

Not sure I would recognize Phoenix greater metro anymore, and I couldn't handle the traffic in LA (the 405) back then, so I don't even want to know what its like now.

Maybe make your choice based on your career. This usually works out best, as long as you are fairly honest with yourself.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

3) Here's ONE list of the most educated cities/areas in the country -

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/most-and-least-educated-cities/6656

- Ann Arbor is listed as First (and ironically, I lived there too), San Jose is second, and DC is third. I submit that DC still is the most concentrated area of highly educated/brilliant people in the country; and Ann Arbor is a tiny town, so that's a HUGE outlier here IMO. SF is listed as 5th, and Boston as 7th.

Take the lawyers out and see how the list changes;) You will note that the list doesn't have SF as 5th. It also doesn't have DC as 3rd. I might be willing to accept calling the Arlington as part of DC but nobody considers Oakland part of SF.

Meh.

Wow misogynistic much

I agree with a lot of this. I lived in DC from 1988 to 1991. It's a fantastic city. I grew up near Boston and after DC ended up just north of San Francisco. Now in Austin.

At your age I would give Denver, San Fran or Seattle/Portland a shot. They are a completely different vibe from DC but the Rockies, Sierra Nevadas are just amazing to be around. The people, food and beauty of the Bay Area tough to beat.

I would give a yellow light to Austin. It probably is a fantastic city for 20 somethings. Sixth St and Rainey St. are fun. The trail around Town Lake is decent. However, at nearly twice your age I find it small, weak restaurant choices (seriously how much BBQ and Mexican can you eat?) and appears to have that Texas little dog syndrome. I don't know... got here only a year before pandemic and did work travel for most of it. Maybe I need to get out more.

Whatever your choice best of luck with it. New experiences like you contemplating make life interesting.

How much of a factor is running? As in, does having the benefit of altitude significantly affect your decision?

Also, what are your job prospects in DC vs. Denver?

Flagpole wrote:

1) You never met my wife in DC then. She IS a genius by any measure.

What if the measure is choice of life partner?

VIP in the peanut gallery wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

1) You never met my wife in DC then. She IS a genius by any measure.

What if the measure is choice of life partner?

She hit a home run there, brother.

Be sure to have a carport with a roof strong enough to handle a jet engine falling from a few thousand feet