1936 olympics question

walkdontrun wrote:

Germany dominated the medal count with all white athletes so why is it celebrated as a black achievement?

There was this black man from America that won 4 gold medals. The Germans didn't have a guy come close to that.

T& F was the only sport that counted.

Rank Nation Gold Silver Bronze Total

1 United States (USA) 14 7 4 25

2 Germany (GER) 5 4 7 16

3 Finland (FIN) 3 5 2 10

4 Great Britain (GBR) 2 5 0 7

5 Japan (JPN) 2 2 3 7

6 Italy (ITA) 1 2 2 5

7 Hungary (HUN) 1 0 0 1

New Zealand (NZL) 1 0 0 1

9 Poland (POL) 0 2 1 3

10 Canada (CAN) 0 1 3 4

11 Switzerland (SUI) 0 1 0 1

12 Netherlands (NED) 0 0 2 2

Sweden (SWE) 0 0 2 2

14 Australia (AUS) 0 0 1 1

Latvia (LAT) 0 0 1 1

Philippines (PHI) 0 0 1 1

Totals (16 nations) 29 29 29 87

Because no one thought Jesse Owens had a chance (Even though he did hold the World Records.)

Jesse Owens winning was like The USA Olympic Hockey team of 1980 beating the Russians and then winning the Gold Medal, Jesse Owens was a bigger upset Than Buster Douglas Beating Mike Tyson, It was just extremely surprising.

Why does only track count?

walkdontrun wrote:

Why does only track count?

It doesn't. They all count. Germany did dominate but Jessie Owens from THE Ohio State University was still an embarrassment for the Nazi white ideal.

douglas burke wrote:

Because no one thought Jesse Owens had a chance (Even though he did hold the World Records.)

Jesse Owens winning was like The USA Olympic Hockey team of 1980 beating the Russians and then winning the Gold Medal, Jesse Owens was a bigger upset Than Buster Douglas Beating Mike Tyson, It was just extremely surprising.

I don't quite follow. The world record holder winning some Gold Medals is comparable to Douglass beating Tyson? Really?

If the Nazis believed their athletes could beat Owens, it was wishful thinking.

douglas burke wrote:

Because no one thought Jesse Owens had a chance

This is not true. Maybe no one in Germany thought he could win after feasting on Hitler's Aryan Race superiority propaganda for years, but he was certainly a favorite outside of Germany.

You want the definition of cancel culture? You should be asking what would have happened if Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller were allowed to run on the 4x100 as scheduled and as favored to win without Jesse Owens who didn't want to run on the relay anyway.

Many years later, after all of the history and legend of Jesse Owens and his defeat of Hitler and the Aryan race it was Marty Glickman, the only white person to attend Jesse's funeral. He was promptly escorted to the front pew and treated like family.

So, what did some Americans really think about Blacks and Jews in the 30's? Well that was answered behind closed doors between people in position the make those decisions. Pretty$hitty deal for the athletes involved.

HappyJack wrote:

walkdontrun wrote:

Germany dominated the medal count with all white athletes so why is it celebrated as a black achievement?

There was this black man from America that won 4 gold medals. The Germans didn't have a guy come close to that.

True, but the idea that Jesse Owens 'embarrassed Hitler' was likely a propaganda exercise. Part of the myth is that Hitler snubbed Owens but there is video of Adolf with a big beaming face presenting Owens with his medal.

Back then it was probably more of an 'embarrassment' to white Americans that their nation's best athletes were black.

In any case, it wasn't for bad luck or better timing, Germany had a certain Rudolf Harbig who could likely have at least reached the final in every event from the 100m to the 1500m, something no other athlete before or since, and likely never will, have a similar potential.

The USA always has an advantage in that they are usually the best in every relay event. Supposing that Germany had the best 100 and 400m mens relay teams, Harbig would likely have won four gold medals at the 1940 Olympics if the war hadn't denied him (400/800, 100 and 400 relays).

I would say that winning the 800m/1500m double is a greater and more difficult achievement than the 100/200/longjump. Peter Snell was a greater Olympic athlete than Jesse Owens. Similarly, being WR holder in every event from 400 to 1000m, as Harbig was, is feat unmatched in athletics history. The only thing that comes close is Coe breaking the 800/1000/1500/Mile WRs while effectively being the British 400m champion.

And before anybody takes what I said about white Americans back then out of context, Jesse Owens himself would later claim that it was President Roosevelt and not Hitler who snubbed him for being a black man. White Americans were no less racist than Germans in the 1930's.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/race/how-america-snubbed-jesse-owens/

Ayran supremacy was undermined by athletic success of non-Aryans.

To keep a populace in line with dictatorial policies, success in sports was used by the Soviet-bloc as well.

USA citizens identify with NFL teams or other pro teams, and the success of those teams often changes a person's outlook on the quality of their life.

There was a great deal of political turmoil after WWI, and propaganda suggested that Jesse Owen's had helped establish USA superiority, which is a pretty big leap from athletics to political system.

However, Owen's noted that he was snubbed in the USA, and still subject to inferior treatment, but those issues seem to have been swept under the rug, and then ignored with the outbreak of WWII.

John Woodruff, also a black USA runner, won the 800m that year as well.

RichardRider wrote:

Marty Glickman, the only white person to attend Jesse's funeral. He was promptly escorted to the front pew and treated like family.

Richard,

Can you please document this fact? It is highly interesting and I am wanting to learn more about the funeral.

Hitler did present medals to Owens. But he didn't want to. He was told he had to or he wouldn't be allowed to present medals to Germans who won them.

walkdontrun wrote:

Germany dominated the medal count with all white athletes so why is it celebrated as a black achievement?

Because black people don't participate in:

Diving

Swimming

Water Polo

Canoeing

Cycling

Equestrian

Fencing

Field Hockey

Gymnastics

Handball

Modern Pentathlon

(Horse) Polo

Rowing

Sailing

Shooting

But the sports they did participate in . . .

"...there is video of Adolf with a big beaming face presenting Owens with his medal."

Hitler did not present a medal to any of the Olympic winners. He greeted/congratulated some of those who won.

RichardRider wrote:

So, what did some Americans really think about Blacks and Jews in the 30's? Well that was answered behind closed doors between people in position the make those decisions. Pretty$hitty deal for the athletes involved.

Point well taken Richard. But ask yourself this with the benefit of 20/20 hind site where would you rather have live in the 1930'40's . Nazi Germany or the U.S.A.? And no Canada or Australia aren't options.

Star,

I'm sure the following individuals will disagree with your statement.

Diving, Michael Wright (USA nat champ)

Swimming, Cullen Jones (Olympic medalist)

Water Polo, Ashleigh Johnson (Olympic medalist)

Canoeing, Lisa Carrington (Olympic medalist, indigenous)

Cycling, Nelson Vails (Olympic medalist)

Equestrian, Abdelkebir Ouaddar (Olympic opening ceremony flag bearer)

Fencing, Peter Westbrook (Olympic medalist)

Field Hockey, Leroy Mayers (coach)

Gymnastics, Simone Biles (Olympic medalist)

Handball, (Africa hosts a contential championship)

Modern Pentathlon, (Tunisia has sent a team)

(Horse) Polo, (the sport started in Persia)

Rowing, Anita Defrantz (USOPC leadership)

Sailing, "Bill" Pinkney (sailed around the world solo)

Shooting, Fehaid Al-Deehani (Olympic medalist)