Does EPO give you more energy?

2600 bro wrote:

Of course - we are always generating heat. Uncoupling thermogenesis, shivering, thermic effect of food, muscle contraction.

Thermoregulation failure is not the primary reason for fatigue in most races. The body can only sustain anerobic energy production for so long, acidosis, and limits of fuel supplies are the limiters. Being able to rely on aerobic processes for longer (due to increase mitochondrial density/volume/count and O2 transport capacity - both effects of EPO use) and at higher power output allows more time-to-fatigue.

The 5/10k distances do not represent some thermodynamically limited pace for humans - after all you can sustain much higher power outputs in shorter races! The goal is just to shift the ATP production more toward aerobic processes at the desired pace, allowing longer time-to-fatigue.

Of course you probably know this - you've been trolling with these vague, goalpost shifting questions, for like 10 years here.

Things would be easier if you would just state your agenda and goals and we can help you reach those goals or see the error in your ways. Playing naive/inquisitive/"question guy" only works the first 5 times :)

how does that work? wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

Of course - we are always generating heat. Uncoupling thermogenesis, shivering, thermic effect of food, muscle contraction.

Thermoregulation failure is not the primary reason for fatigue in most races. The body can only sustain anerobic energy production for so long, acidosis, and limits of fuel supplies are the limiters. Being able to rely on aerobic processes for longer (due to increase mitochondrial density/volume/count and O2 transport capacity - both effects of EPO use) and at higher power output allows more time-to-fatigue.

The 5/10k distances do not represent some thermodynamically limited pace for humans - after all you can sustain much higher power outputs in shorter races! The goal is just to shift the ATP production more toward aerobic processes at the desired pace, allowing longer time-to-fatigue.

Of course you probably know this - you've been trolling with these vague, goalpost shifting questions, for like 10 years here.

Things would be easier if you would just state your agenda and goals and we can help you reach those goals or see the error in your ways. Playing naive/inquisitive/"question guy" only works the first 5 times :)

Show me your ATP counts for Aerobic and Anaerobic contribution in a 13 minute 5k?

Show me your efficiency estimates for the same time at optimal temperature and humidity versus a similar effort 20 seconds slower due to increased thermal stress?

how does that work? wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think the OP is trying to prove that EPO usage doesn't improve performance when we have countless studies that show it does.

He keeps ranting about "Does EPO give you more energy?" when even the question is misleading since he hasn't defined "energy". Are we talking about the molecular energy for muscle contraction (ATP)? Or are we talking about the fuel that is used to generate ATP (glucose, fatty acids, amino acids, etc).

At the end of the day the question becomes.....is the net affect of EPO usage improved performance?

The answer is "Duh!".....anything else is just doing scientific gymnastics looking for a way out.

Alan

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm asking you to support your beliefs.

Ok, a definition of "energy" in this case: Metabolic energy, ATP turnover.

Does EPO doping improve or increase ATP turnover?

I have asked this question on this thread.

how does that work? wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think the OP is trying to prove that EPO usage doesn't improve performance when we have countless studies that show it does.

He keeps ranting about "Does EPO give you more energy?" when even the question is misleading since he hasn't defined "energy". Are we talking about the molecular energy for muscle contraction (ATP)? Or are we talking about the fuel that is used to generate ATP (glucose, fatty acids, amino acids, etc).

At the end of the day the question becomes.....is the net affect of EPO usage improved performance?

The answer is "Duh!".....anything else is just doing scientific gymnastics looking for a way out.

Alan

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm asking you to support your beliefs.

Ok, a definition of "energy" in this case: Metabolic energy, ATP turnover.

Does EPO doping improve or increase ATP turnover?

I have asked this question on this thread.

how does that work? wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think the OP is trying to prove that EPO usage doesn't improve performance when we have countless studies that show it does.

He keeps ranting about "Does EPO give you more energy?" when even the question is misleading since he hasn't defined "energy". Are we talking about the molecular energy for muscle contraction (ATP)? Or are we talking about the fuel that is used to generate ATP (glucose, fatty acids, amino acids, etc).

At the end of the day the question becomes.....is the net affect of EPO usage improved performance?

The answer is "Duh!".....anything else is just doing scientific gymnastics looking for a way out.

Alan

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm asking you to support your beliefs.

Ok, a definition of "energy" in this case: Metabolic energy, ATP turnover.

Does EPO doping improve or increase ATP turnover?

I have asked this question on this thread.