If I’m not running tempos in base, am I wasting time?

Yes

Pretty sure lydiard recommends nothing faster than MP in base phase except strides/hill sprints or fartleks of 1min or less and full recovery.

yeah you should be doing something faster than MP. hill reps, or tempo intervals are probably your best bets.

Marathon pace for someone who doesn't run very much is basically their easy run pace, so it's tough to say marathon pace plus 15 is good or bad. So I'm going to compare times to a 5k instead.

Let's say someone is in high school running 16:00 for a 5k, or about 5:10 pace. If they never run faster than 5:30 for a couple months during their base phase (except for maybe some strides) then I think that's fine. But if they're doing everything at 7:00 pace for two months, I think they're absolutely wasting time. A person like that running a couple moderate runs averaging sub 6 pace for 6-8 miles each week is great during the base phase.

Ace_of_Base wrote:

Pretty sure lydiard recommends nothing faster than MP in base phase except strides/hill sprints or fartleks of 1min or less and full recovery.

Pretty sure Lydiard said no such thing.

So basically when I say MP+15, I mean 6:00/mi. My MP is around 5:45 (and definitely should be by now based on the last few training cycles). For some reason I’ve got away from tempos in a few base phases lately with varied results

It probably depends why you are in “base phase” and for how long and what event... if you are in base because you just came off a hard trading block and are building up your mileage I would say you are fine doing what you are doing maybe mix a couple progressions in toward the end of runs or some 30 sec pickups during your easy runs.

If you are not in base for a long time it totally fine and if you are training for longer events it’s also fine. You are obviously not wack at running so just keep up the grind and stay healthy.

Unless you’re planning on racing only 50 miles and up, a 3-6 mile half marathon effort tempo once every week-10 days is a good idea once you’re more than 3-4 weeks into base phase.

Tough for me to compare marathon pace wrote:

Marathon pace for someone who doesn't run very much is basically their easy run pace, so it's tough to say marathon pace plus 15 is good or bad. So I'm going to compare times to a 5k instead.

Let's say someone is in high school running 16:00 for a 5k, or about 5:10 pace. If they never run faster than 5:30 for a couple months during their base phase (except for maybe some strides) then I think that's fine. But if they're doing everything at 7:00 pace for two months, I think they're absolutely wasting time. A person like that running a couple moderate runs averaging sub 6 pace for 6-8 miles each week is great during the base phase.

Wasting their time isn't quite right. The person who runs 50mpw at 7min pace is light years ahead of the kid who sits on their butt for 3 months. But yes they are probably not getting the most out of their time. There is a reason why Lydiard proscribed those 2 hard runs/week.

3 is the longest you should do a half marathon tempo

Do your tempos between hm and m pace

Take it from Malmo, he’s the guy who said it and I think someone who broke a WR has good advice

In HS and College I did almost no interval work during the summer. I did do high aerobic runs of 5-10mi 2x a week. I did strides 3-4 times per week. Each year of HS, my 2mi track time became my 2mi Cross Country split the next fall after that summer work. Each year of College, my 5mi Cross Country times dropped by 30-45sec.

Cycled training is critical to getting the body to perform. Just like during a week you do hard days and easy days, you need hard weeks and easy weeks and you need hard seasons / racing and easier base phase. The body can recover from easy to moderate running much easier than hard running. But moderate running is the key. Easy all the time does not stress the body and therefore gives minimal gains.

not that there's anything wrong with that wrote:

Ace_of_Base wrote:

Pretty sure lydiard recommends nothing faster than MP in base phase except strides/hill sprints or fartleks of 1min or less and full recovery.

Pretty sure Lydiard said no such thing.

This. Lydiard emphatically called for a variety of paces in his base phase and was quite vocal in condemning all-one-speed running during base.

IMO yes, never approaching race pace for months is a mistake. I think you should try to include all pace zones at all times in training; just shift the focus to periodize.

You don't HAVE to do tempos though, plenty of other ways to build fitness.

Ho Hum wrote:

IMO yes, never approaching race pace for months is a mistake. I think you should try to include all pace zones at all times in training; just shift the focus to periodize.

You don't HAVE to do tempos though, plenty of other ways to build fitness.

This.^ At least short fartlek/hills once a week where you are keeping the legs in touch with speed and just a touch of Vo2Max for the lungs. This will go a long ways in keeping your overall fitness up. I always liked a little HM pace in my LRs, rather than an extra day of tempo. This will keep all systems at a pretty good base level awaiting a buildup to peak.

fromexperience wrote:

3 is the longest you should do a half marathon tempo

Do your tempos between hm and m pace

Take it from Malmo, he’s the guy who said it and I think someone who broke a WR has good advice

Perhaps you meant Michael Musyoki?