Are Americans not concerned about the national debt any longer?

Ive said many time there is no sense fretting about it.

We will NEVER EVER EVER pay down the debt. Period. End of Story. It is simply too massive to even comprehend and it makes no sense to tell this and the next 5 generations of Americans they have to suffer because Rand Paul has some hardon about the budget.

We could make GIGANTIC and hurtful cuts for decades and make little headway.

Then, there is the reality that to make even the smallest dent in the debt, REAL cuts to things that there is no will to cut are needed. Defense, Medicare, other non discretionary items are the bulk of every budget.

Discretionary spending is next to nothing but Rand Paul and his ilk want you to believe you should do without school lunch for the good of the country.

We could cut ALL discretionary spending aside from defense and STILL be running a deficit!!

So, while I am an advocate of drunked spending (or even this 600/2000 a month "Stimulus"), I'm not, and you should not lose sleep ofver something like the debt.

Its as useful as worrying about the earth crashing into the sun.

President Bill Clinton paid down the (Reagan/Bush) debt, and had a surplus.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

It seems both leading Republicans and Democrats no longer discuss the massive debt problem, don’t care or just don’t want to deal with it.

Oh, in three weeks' time the Republicans will suddenly care VERY VERY MUCH about it again.

Speaking generally: Policies that make sense for an individual's finances do not necessarily scale up to a national economy. The best way out of a national fiscal emergency is to "spend" out (which is *not* typically the right way for a single person to go). Part of why many European nations recovered so slowly after 2008 was that they adopted austerity programs, rather than spending.

The danger? Sure, inflation. But in the depths of a true crisis it's much less of a danger than depression/recession/stagnation. And a lot of inflation is just what we *haven't* been seeing (so far).

So: The debt accumulated after the 2017 tax cuts? Bad, because there was no crisis. The economy had been moving pretty steadily upward (and joblessness downward) for several years beforehand.

Dept accumulated *now* as we climb out of recession? Not bad, because necessary to return to a thriving economy. Unfortunately, there are some people who actually do not *want* a thriving economy for the next couple/few years--and have the power to prevent it.

Not sure most Americans ever cared about it.

I also suspect politicians only cared about it when they were not the party in power. Well not so Democrats ever really cared about it since FDR. GOP fits the first line.

I don’t think the debt is unwieldy.

But many still use the debt as a reason to hesitate on stimulus when needed and even when considering pouring money into infrastructure, education or healthcare.

Well there is one theory that since money is just a social construct (which it is), debt - especially on a national or mega-corporation level is also simply a fictitious thing that doesn't matter because at the end of the days if nobody is there to collect your debt then what does it matter? I mean who is collecting 28 trillion dollars from the US and who does the US owe this too anyways? We also look at companies like Apple, Google etc as being financially successful but the truth is those companies are actually debt-ridden as well - to levels that are comical, yet again if nobody is there to collect the question becomes who do you owe anyways, then what does it matter?

Well for rich people it doesn't and the issue isn't really adding to a debt that nobody is collecting - the big issue is that whilst money is just made up it does matter in terms of how much of it is floating around vs the goods and services we use it to purchase. So the national debt can increase and who really gives a f&^k- but what people will care about is when the increase of $$$ in society needs to be equalized by the price of goods and services aka inflation (which we all know).

So as the debt grows by way of these stimulus packages, even if that money goes to big corpos like Amazon, Google, Apple etc and we never see it (as at least 700 billion from the last stimulus package did) - it will still contribute to the influx of cash in society that we will pay for. Of course if you are the CEO of Apple or Google or if you are worth hundreds of millions of dollars you don't care that the price of a gallon of milk might rise a dollar. Heck even if you make 100k a year you probably won't. But the majority of Americans sure as hell will.

So we can sit here and laugh about the "national debt" and what a load of BS it is, and "who do we owe it to - aliens?" but the reality is like the OP intimated - this matters and it is going to have a massive economic impact on this nation in the next 12-48 months

For a year or two, with some 3 card monte accounting and massive revenues due to stock gains etc (and normal tax rates rather than free money for the rich like today) Clinton claimed no DEFICIT for a short time.

Even if EVERY YEAR was like that year, we would never make headway on the debt (the accumulated deficits).

And we had exactly ONE year like that? since 1992?

Yes, this is it. You'd have to jack taxes up across the board AND restructure SS and medicare/aid. Nobody is getting re-elected after that.

Warren Buffet isn't concerned wrote:

The bottom line: There is no evidence from 240 years of American history that the level of the national debt has ever really mattered.

So untrue. The reason US dollars are the world's reserve currency is because for a long time (now passed), the US acted with restraint both in terms of national debt and growing the money supply (true inflation). US dollars were a safe choice for investment. And the world rewarded us.

This manifested itself with favorable currency exchange rates: US dollars buy a lot more goods than if the above were not true. The net effect is it raises the American standard of living across the entire income spectrum from poor to rich. In just about any field, US workers earn far more than their equivalent workers in other countries.

When that goes away, and it will because the debt cannot skyrocket forever, the drop in living standards for all Americans will be devastating. The socialists know this and they eagerly await that moment. They control the narrative in the news media, the entertainment industry, and the education system. Everything will be blamed on rich people. Socialism will be the cure. And then the world is screwed. Forever. Because worldwide socialism would have happened decades ago if the US did not stand up for freedom. When the US falls to socialism, nobody will be left to rescue us. Permanent economic slavery takes over. Books will be burned. People will stand in line for hours to buy a loaf a bread. And nobody will ever know that it does not have to be that way.

Things will never again be as good as they are right now.

Old news. Get me that $2000 stimulus check & extra $300 unemployment so I can throw that sh*t into Bitcoin and get rich

The dollar will not be replaced as the main reserve currency. At least not anytime soon. The only real alternative is the Euro, which won't happen. Many countries in Europe already have negative government bond yields. There's other concerns like the EU's stability given potential future brexits. No other currency is even close. People don't trust China. Historically the dollar index isn't even that low.

Besides if countries try to stop using USD then their enemies will suddenly receive a lot more funding and better weapons.

Edd439 wrote:

The dollar will not be replaced as the main reserve currency. At least not anytime soon..

Nobody can predict when a Ponzi Scheme (the US dollar) will collapse. It just takes some trigger that causes a rush for the exits.

Here's one scenario. The Republicans lose both Senate runoff races next week. Now the Socialists have complete control: House of Representatives, Senate, White House. Six months later, a 9-6 advantage in the Supreme Court. It's time to "reboot" capitalism: Medicare for all, free college tuition for all, universal income payments, Slavery reparations, Paris Agreement payouts, etc etc etc.

The rape of America is just a week away.

This is very true. They accepted the US dollar standard because we promised to hold it to a gold standard. Then we broke that promise and they stuck with us because we had the most powerful economy and because we had all the guns. We are now being caught in economic might. We are much less productive. We have a huge percent of the population living off the state and people want to make it bigger with things like a universal income.

Even though we haven't had Capitalism for decades the socialists are gleefully waiting to blame it on Capitalism. The population is stupid enough to buy it because they no longer understand Capitalism and have been taught that it's a system the rich use to impoverish everyone else and it destroys the environment and now we'll hear that capitalism can't deal with Covid. It will be a real battle to win America back from the socialists because their message sounds really appealing. Free stuff for everyone, you want a home got it, you want healthcare got it, another month of unemployment got it, student loans forgiven got it. It's much harder to be honest and say we need to work and be more productive and accept the rules of the free market to get back on top and still bring in the votes.

Precious Roy wrote:

Modern Monetary Theory has proven to be correct. Money printing and national debt do not create inflation or hyperinflation as a matter of course. Borrowing costs for the US have been miniscule since the 2008 market crash. So, adding debt has little impact on the budget because debt service costs have remained very low compared to the rest of the US budget. And there has been no inflation because US currency and debt is regarded around the world as the preferred safe haven.

No other country in the history of the world could get away with the kind of borrowing that we do in this country. That lasts because we are regarded as the world currency. It will not last forever.

orsufferfortherestofyourlife wrote:

Anyone truly concerned with the national debt will support taxing the rich. If they aren't pushing for that, then any "concern" is fake.

How about cut spending? To achieve any financial goal, you can either: get more income, or reduce expenditures.

We should cut back on $300k+ salaries of fredo governors

We should cut back on welfare programs.

We should cut back on military budgets.

We should cut back on stimulus checks.

We should cut the number of government employees by 2/3.

The government is too big. And squanders much. We should return to a small, limited government.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Even though we haven't had Capitalism for decades the socialists are gleefully waiting to blame it on Capitalism.

US corporate taxes are at like a 70 year low.

US income taxes are quite low as well.

What is the argument, besides weird goldbug "muh fiat money," that we are LESS capitalist now?

Primo Numero Uno wrote: It will be a real battle to win America back from the socialists because their message sounds really appealing.

It's over. The left won. Our only chance was a free/independent news media and democracy. How did that work out? Not only did they refuse to cover negative stories on Joe Biden, they actively prevent you and me from sharing those stories among ourselves. Just wait until they open the borders and extend voting rights to illegal immigrants, prison inmates, and further water down election policies. America is now a One Party system. And the parasites are about to kill the host.

Harambe wrote:

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Even though we haven't had Capitalism for decades the socialists are gleefully waiting to blame it on Capitalism.

US corporate taxes are at like a 70 year low.

US income taxes are quite low as well.

What is the argument, besides weird goldbug "muh fiat money," that we are LESS capitalist now?

Well the federal register is 165,000 pages long. The tax code is 80,000 pages. The federal government continues to expand its power, using loopholes like withdrawing highway funding to states if they don't comply with things. Obamacare. New Deal. "War on Poverty." Etc etc etc. And yes, it matters that the government now has full control of the money supply.

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

President Bill Clinton paid down the (Reagan/Bush) debt, and had a surplus.

No, he paid down the budget deficit, very different from the debt.