Are Americans not concerned about the national debt any longer?

No, the interest rates on government debt is lower than inflation. And the Federal Reserve is trying to increase inflation even more. Massive deficit spending is expected under that scenario.

orsufferfortherestofyourlife wrote:

Anyone truly concerned with the national debt will support taxing the rich. If they aren't pushing for that, then any "concern" is fake.

+1!

American's will just default, if necessary.

More scaremongering about repercussions from defaulting on central banks than about pandemic.

Ask who used to set money policy (hint: watch Die Hard III).

There is a difference between transfers of wealth and increases in real per capita income.

Neither party cares. Ok Rand Paul cares and that is about it. The debt is crippling to the country at this point. We have already admitted years ago that we can not pay it back. We said if congress does not raise the debt ceiling the US cannot pay its debts. If you cannot pay debt without incurring more debt that is a pretty clear indication you can't pay it off. Now the only question is how exactly we deal with it. The plan appears to be to monetize it which is worse than default. The end result will be the crushing of the dollar.

I am highly concerned about this but very few appear to be. Ray Dalio gave a great interview on this a couple of months ago. But the trend you see with the US central bank and debt is the same path seen by the other country's in recent history that have had the world's reserve currency. Eventually, everyone is irresponsible with their currency and has destroyed its value. This will be a huge problem for the US as we are the world's largest debtor nation and run massive trade deficits.

At this point, the debt crisis and dollar crisis is going to come crashing down on us and there is no way to avoid it. The question is what direction will the country go once this happens. The worst case is the socialists convince the majority to go that route. Maybe we go back on a gold standard or another country does and we tie to them in a reverse Breton Woods. Best case is we revisit the constitution and remember that it says the federal government can only COIN money. We get rid of the federal reserve and go back to the gold money system we had up until 1913 that made us the world's superpower and takes the power from the government and gives it back to the people.

Modern Monetary Theory has proven to be correct. Money printing and national debt do not create inflation or hyperinflation as a matter of course. Borrowing costs for the US have been miniscule since the 2008 market crash. So, adding debt has little impact on the budget because debt service costs have remained very low compared to the rest of the US budget. And there has been no inflation because US currency and debt is regarded around the world as the preferred safe haven.

Precious Roy wrote:

Modern Monetary Theory has proven to be correct. Money printing and national debt do not create inflation or hyperinflation as a matter of course. Borrowing costs for the US have been miniscule since the 2008 market crash. So, adding debt has little impact on the budget because debt service costs have remained very low compared to the rest of the US budget. And there has been no inflation because US currency and debt is regarded around the world as the preferred safe haven.

Not disagreeing so much as pointing out that your arguments were similar to those during the dotcom boom and during the RMBS boom.

There was a dotcom bust and a RMBS bust...if the USA had to pay back the principal--bust.

The citizens don't have to and won't bother to.

trollism wrote:

In about 3 weeks it will once again become a massive issue for all Republicans.

They've had 4 years of not caring, but for one reason or another, they're about to care a huge amount.

Is this a jab to republicans? At least republicans will likely care about it. We're already blowing several hundred billion dollars paying off interest on the debt each year. That's a huge chunk of the federal tax revenue as it is, just completely wasted on paying off interest. And the debt keeps growing, making a larger chunk of the tax revenue being wasted every year.

Something big needs to change. You're not going to make these cuts by simply decreasing military, or simply cutting some social programs, or decrease medicare amounds. Cuts need made across the board if that debt is going to go away.

Yes. Adding debt, at this point, is inconsequential. With the interest rates the government borrows at being close to zero (maybe less with inflation) it'd be unwise not to issue debt to somehow 'save' the economy. I suppose for this reason you can believe that interest rates will NEVER go back to historical rates. If they did it would be game over for the entire world.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Fair point. But shouldn’t we also be cutting costs? It seems law makers are willing to raise taxes but few are willing to actually cut anything.

There isn't much to cut. SS? Not getting cut.

Remember when Obama tried to introduce Chained CPI to the COLA calculation? He got a huge backlash .... from this own party.

Actually, what we should do about SS is to raise the income cap on SS tax. If we do that, I'd accept Chained CPI.

Democrats should care too wrote:

trollism wrote:

In about 3 weeks it will once again become a massive issue for all Republicans.

They've had 4 years of not caring, but for one reason or another, they're about to care a huge amount.

Is this a jab to republicans? At least republicans will likely care about it. We're already blowing several hundred billion dollars paying off interest on the debt each year. That's a huge chunk of the federal tax revenue as it is, just completely wasted on paying off interest. And the debt keeps growing, making a larger chunk of the tax revenue being wasted every year.

Something big needs to change. You're not going to make these cuts by simply decreasing military, or simply cutting some social programs, or decrease medicare amounds. Cuts need made across the board if that debt is going to go away.

Yeah republicans will care, as long as democrats are in charge and then when republicans are back charge they won't care and will run up huge debt and the pattern will go on and on. See the 2017 tax cut that will quote "pay for itself" or how bout some wars on the credit card. then when somebody else is in charge, it's all about debt debt and on on. They even have a name for the strategy, it's called the two christmas theory.

Rand Paul is a lying piece who says he cares about debt but votes for wars and taxes cuts every time his party is in charge.

Precious Roy wrote:

Modern Monetary Theory has proven to be correct. Money printing and national debt do not create inflation or hyperinflation as a matter of course. Borrowing costs for the US have been miniscule since the 2008 market crash. So, adding debt has little impact on the budget because debt service costs have remained very low compared to the rest of the US budget. And there has been no inflation because US currency and debt is regarded around the world as the preferred safe haven.

Modern Monetary Theory is garbage and we will soon see why. The reason US debt is so cheap is because our central bank sets the rate. No one is willing to buy US debt anymore because they've realized it's garbage. That is why the only buyer for US treasuries during this past year's money printing has been the US Federal Reserve.

The huge problem with this logic is we assume that the rest of the world will not wise up to this nonsense and stop treating the US currency as the world reserve currency. They absolutely will and when they do it will be devastating. China has been sitting there gleefully watching this mess unfold during COVID. They are getting ready to pull the rug out from under us. We heavily rely on the overvaluation of the dollar and the willingness of the rest of the world to take and hold the dollar as a store of value to fund our massive trade deficits. What is going to happen is they will call BS and say they no longer value our currency as much and we will have to pay more for their good. Since almost everything we consume heavily relies on foreign goods prices will go through the roof. To compound that all trillions of dollars sitting in foreign central banks in the hands of people overseas will want to be cashed in before the currency collapses which will further compound this problem.

This is a cycle that has been repeated many times throughout history yet few seem able to recognize and everyone acts stunned when it happens again. I won't say if this happening in the next few months or the next year of 5 years from now. But I would be stunned if this collapse is not well underway at some point during Biden's term.

Do you reallly care ? wrote:

Yeah republicans will care, as long as democrats are in charge and then when republicans are back charge they won't care and will run up huge debt and the pattern will go on and on. See the 2017 tax cut that will quote "pay for itself" or how bout some wars on the credit card. then when somebody else is in charge, it's all about debt debt and on on. They even have a name for the strategy, it's called the two christmas theory.

Rand Paul is a lying piece who says he cares about debt but votes for wars and taxes cuts every time his party is in charge.

So I agree with you about Republicans, in general, being totally hypocritical on fiscal policy and wars. McConnel, I believe even made a comment we can have fiscal responsibility under the next president last year. They have been hypocrites just as interested in buying votes through excess government spending as the Democrats.

But where the hate for Rand coming from? You can disagree with his politics but he has been one of the most consistent politicians we have. He has repeatedly spoken out against both deficit spending and wars. He was one of the strongest supporters of our exit from Syria despite the ire of more traditional Republicans. Yes, he's for tax cuts but he's repeatedly been against excess spending. He was one of 6 Republicans to vote against the stimulus.

The national debt only exists when the president is a Democrat.

gdm wrote:

The national debt only exists when the president is a Democrat.

The national debt always exists. Republicans may use it as a talking point more often than Democrats but it is very much a real thing-27 trillion dollars- more than the combined GDP of the US, the UK and Germany.

And I don’t see any real plans to balance the books on either side of the aisle. The debt is increasing by trillions every year.

I am putting my investments into a general bet that this will occur in three years. Hedging inflation, investing in some foreign markets, buying agriculture, platinum, copper.

I’m worried about it and I have been for a long time. Taxing the rich won’t work unless we simplify the tax code. They have way too many deductions and don’t report a huge ordinary income, it’s largely capital gains.

I like the idea of a consumption tax on luxury goods. We can shrink the military for sure and cut back on social programs, but the government always finds a way to spend it.

I was paying extra principal on my mortgage each month, but I stopped because I’d rather pay with future dollars that are worth less when my interest rate is 2.8%.

Load up on hard assets now. I bought some silver earlier this year.

I’m far from an economist, but I know a little and I can’t see how this ends well.

This thread is evolving into the Ayn Rand thread from a few days ago, and that is probably a good thing.

If you increase taxes at the same time as increasing debt, that will burn the candle at both ends.

The debt is worthless. It is paper money, but not directly infused into the economy. Money has as store of value, but the 1920s Germany frightened certain banking clans because the paper money became worthless. Remove gold as backing the money, use debt instead of just printing money, and there it is. Keep track of who owns the debt instruments, i.e., who gets defaulted on if the public stops issuing debt to pay the interest on existing debt. It is not the public who suffers default.

Well, we don’t put economists in charge of the economy or national debt, we put politicians in charge of that.

And the number one job of an elected politician is to get re-elected.

Debt and deficit are abstract at the national level.

But money in people’s pockets is real and motivates voters.

So, the debt is not so important to the people in charge of running it up.