I don't understand Lactate Threshold

Also,

Just about everything he said in that paragraph of nonsense is wrong. This thread went downhill when he started posting.

Also he said 7% anaerobic for a Marathon? Not even close. More like 2%

thatthing wrote:

I guess he explained it like he was 5. Haha

I think it went over his head.

thatthing wrote:

Also,

Just about everything he said in that paragraph of nonsense is wrong. This thread went downhill when he started posting.

Also he said 7% anaerobic for a Marathon? Not even close. More like 2%

No, everything I wrote was correct. Your information is very out of date. Marathon pace is 7-8% anaerobic because ATP is produced and used both aerobically and anaerobically in the race.

I like metabolism more wrote:

The mitochondria use H+ in the electron transport chain. H+ isn't your enemy, it's a message signalled to the nerves to tell you too slow down or stop or at the end of a long run to eat carbs. Excess H+ is buffered by many processes including the Bicarbonate system . Also Lactate production from Glycogen acts as a buffer against acidosis.

"Lactate Threshold" is not a major event otherwise 10k races would be problematic.

Hydrogen ions are not the problem. Bad pacing is slightly problematic. Very bad pacing much more so.

Undereating or overeating (or eating at the wrong time) are problematic.

This shows you don’t know what you are taking about. When the mitochondria can’t keep up with the amount of H+ they build up, cause acidosis and block the calcium resulting in poor contractions to the muscles.

There is no “message” sent to the nerves saying that carbs are running out. There is no thinking that is more outdated here than this.. Dod you make that up or something?

So if acidosis doesn’t happen seriously until glycogen runs out— what makes my legs feel terrible in a 1500m race? I am confused. I would assume glycogen -> ATP also contributes to acidosis as you are only saving a single proton per glucose monomer relative to free glucose.

Anyway thanks for all the good discussion on this thread. Appreciate it

Harambe wrote:

So if acidosis doesn’t happen seriously until glycogen runs out— what makes my legs feel terrible in a 1500m race? I am confused. I would assume glycogen -> ATP also contributes to acidosis as you are only saving a single proton per glucose monomer relative to free glucose.

Anyway thanks for all the good discussion on this thread. Appreciate it

I think the problem with threads like these is you're going to get textbook answers straight from Ex.Phys 101, but also more thorough answers by those with advanced degrees or those currently researching. It doesn't help that terminology is vague, changing or just incorrect.

When it doubt, go with the textbook answer and move on.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

"..you are using more energy, by far, of all kinds of 800 meter pace than at marathon pace."

Assuming you are talking about ATP you're going to have to explain this one.

Alan

I don't mind expressing a bit of pleasure at calling you brain-dead just before the new year.

See, when you're going marathon pace you're taking it relatively easy, compared to when you're in an 800 going all out.

And you're using ATP a whole lot faster too.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Harambe wrote:

So if acidosis doesn’t happen seriously until glycogen runs out— what makes my legs feel terrible in a 1500m race? I am confused. I would assume glycogen -> ATP also contributes to acidosis as you are only saving a single proton per glucose monomer relative to free glucose.

Anyway thanks for all the good discussion on this thread. Appreciate it

I think the problem with threads like these is you're going to get textbook answers straight from Ex.Phys 101, but also more thorough answers by those with advanced degrees or those currently researching. It doesn't help that terminology is vague, changing or just incorrect.

When it doubt, go with the textbook answer and move on.

Alan

Fair, but I enjoy hearing people debate the latest. I don’t need an absolute answer — just want to hear the current ideas.

The H+ is well known as a message signaller. That's why acidosis hurts.

And mitochondria dont cause acidosis. In this scenario of glycogen depletion the buffering effect of glycogenolysis is lost.

Harambe wrote:

So if acidosis doesn’t happen seriously until glycogen runs out— what makes my legs feel terrible in a 1500m race? I am confused. I would assume glycogen -> ATP also contributes to acidosis as you are only saving a single proton per glucose monomer relative to free glucose.

Anyway thanks for all the good discussion on this thread. Appreciate it

Glycogen metabolism is a buffer, but glucose metabolism is an acidifyer. Glycogen is the preferred fuel, but in a 1500m race you have to start fast and hold on, cover moves and make a final push and hold on again to the line..

All of this depletes your fast twitch fibers. You are trying to pace your race perfectly. You can't go any faster.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

"..you are using more energy, by far, of all kinds of 800 meter pace than at marathon pace."

Assuming you are talking about ATP you're going to have to explain this one.

Alan

I don't mind expressing a bit of pleasure at calling you brain-dead just before the new year.

See, when you're going marathon pace you're taking it relatively easy, compared to when you're in an 800 going all out.

And you're using ATP a whole lot faster too.

But that's not what you said. You should post slower and give your glycogen depleted brain more time to think.

And after all of this science and such, in the end it still comes down to hanging on as long as you can.

I like metabolism more wrote:

thatthing wrote:

This shows you don’t know what you are taking about. When the mitochondria can’t keep up with the amount of H+ they build up, cause acidosis and block the calcium resulting in poor contractions to the muscles.

There is no “message” sent to the nerves saying that carbs are running out. There is no thinking that is more outdated here than this.. Dod you make that up or something?

The H+ is well known as a message signaller. That's why acidosis hurts.

And mitochondria dont cause acidosis. In this scenario of glycogen depletion the buffering effect of glycogenolysis is lost.

I never said mitochondria caused acidosis. I am calling you out on the baseless claim from nowhere that makes you think that nerve signals are being sent as glycogen stores run out.

Glycogen stores are not running out when a high school athlete hits the wall at the 400 mark of

an 800. This is not debatable.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

"..you are using more energy, by far, of all kinds of 800 meter pace than at marathon pace."

Assuming you are talking about ATP you're going to have to explain this one.

Alan

I don't mind expressing a bit of pleasure at calling you brain-dead just before the new year.

See, when you're going marathon pace you're taking it relatively easy, compared to when you're in an 800 going all out.

And you're using ATP a whole lot faster too.

All I did was ask for an explanation you little twit. I haven't cared to keep up with this stuff for over 20 years so excuse me if I am failing to recall crap from Ex.Phys 101.

PS: Don't reply. I remember now. Also, you're still a dick.

Alan

thatthing wrote:

I like metabolism more wrote:

The H+ is well known as a message signaller. That's why acidosis hurts.

And mitochondria dont cause acidosis. In this scenario of glycogen depletion the buffering effect of glycogenolysis is lost.

I never said mitochondria caused acidosis. I am calling you out on the baseless claim from nowhere that makes you think that nerve signals are being sent as glycogen stores run out.

Glycogen stores are not running out when a high school athlete hits the wall at the 400 mark of

an 800. This is not debatable.

You should read more carefully. For serious 800m runners, the race is a short acceleration followed by a long controlled deceleration. The most powerful fibers are depleted and this process continues.

Before you even think about calling me out, try and understand the point.