Hey LetsRun, I'm a high school 800/1600 guy about to start racing in a month or so. I haven't raced a mile since sophomore year (I'm a senior now), and I'm hoping to run 4:20-4:25 this year. In the month leading up to my first races of the season, I'd like to work in a track workout and a tempo run each week, in addition to my basic road runs. I'm from a low-ish mileage program, so at the moment I'm hitting 35-40 mpw. My question is, what kind of tempo runs should I do as a miler? I've recently done a 3 mile tempo at 5:35 pace, and a 2 mile tempo at 5:24 pace with 4x200 after at about 30 seconds. How should I adapt these runs as I build up to the season, and what kind of paces should I strive for to hit my goal? Thank you!
Tempo Runs as a Miler??
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I would shoot for more tempos in the 4-6 mile range, with the 4 mile tempos closer the Jack Daniels tempo pace and the 6 mile tempos slower than by a few seconds a mile. Or just go off of effort, but 2/3 miles is a bit short imo
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coleiolio wrote:
I would shoot for more tempos in the 4-6 mile range, with the 4 mile tempos closer the Jack Daniels tempo pace and the 6 mile tempos slower than by a few seconds a mile. Or just go off of effort, but 2/3 miles is a bit short imo
Ok cool, do the 200s afterwards help in your opinion? I like to do them to keep my body used to running fast when tired, but I'm not positive they have any real effect. -
MilerInTraining wrote:
coleiolio wrote:
I would shoot for more tempos in the 4-6 mile range, with the 4 mile tempos closer the Jack Daniels tempo pace and the 6 mile tempos slower than by a few seconds a mile. Or just go off of effort, but 2/3 miles is a bit short imo
Ok cool, do the 200s afterwards help in your opinion? I like to do them to keep my body used to running fast when tired, but I'm not positive they have any real effect.
Something like 200s at 800/1500m pace with like 2 mins rest is fine. It isn't so much for conditioning as in just getting the legs used to turning over. Later on when they are the focus of the workout, you will cut the rest and get some anaerobic conditioning.
As far as tempos, slow the pace and up the duration to 20-30 mins. You are better off doing 4-5 miles at 6 min pace than 2 miles at 5:24. I expect that after a couple weeks you will be running 5:40s with the same effort. -
It looks like you are basing your tempo pace on what your goal is and maybe not where you are right now which would be a mistake.
For example if you are at 4:40-45 right now your tempo might be a little too quick. -
I think I'll have to disagree on this one. An 800/1600 guy doesn't need 4-6 mile tempos. The tempo workouts he's doing sound like a better option to me. They're more specific to his actual race distances
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your Anaerobic Threshold Pace should be 50-60 sec. slower than your CURRENT Mile Fitness and should not exceed 4 miles/25 minutes, and your Aerobic Threshold Pace should be 1:20-1:30 slower than your CURRENT Mile Fitness and should be anywhere from 30-60 minutes. I would build gradually towards both of those and incorporate them regularly, particularly right now when not a lot of Racing is Going on. Ive got some detailed videos of these types of things on my YouTube Channel (name of channel is BlackBeltRunningCoach447) if you are interested in more detail. Hope this helps!
Jason -
BlackBeltRunningCoach447 wrote:
your Anaerobic Threshold Pace should be 50-60 sec. slower than your CURRENT Mile Fitness and should not exceed 4 miles/25 minutes, and your Aerobic Threshold Pace should be 1:20-1:30 slower than your CURRENT Mile Fitness and should be anywhere from 30-60 minutes. I would build gradually towards both of those and incorporate them regularly, particularly right now when not a lot of Racing is Going on. Ive got some detailed videos of these types of things on my YouTube Channel (name of channel is BlackBeltRunningCoach447) if you are interested in more detail. Hope this helps!
Jason
That’s a bit too fast for Aerobic threshold. For OP it should be closer to 2:00 slower than current mile fitness but as a general recommendation best to look at % of vV02 max. The faster you are...the farther away your mile time from your AT -
Nice that you have an indoor season coming up.
200m tracks have tight curves. Practice warming up in the opposite direction, and I would try some interval sessions in the opposite direction around the track.
You can do this outdoor as well.
I don't use the term 'tempo' runs, or VO2 or LT or anything else like that.
Your runs are fine. Your paces are fine, and should improve with races.
One day a week try 4-5 miles at a good pace, seek to break 6 min/mile.
At least once a week, run 45 minutes to 1 hour at a pace you can talk. This is good for ligaments and tendons, and too often males lift weights to get stronger but in a way that the ligaments and tendons can't keep up. Your capacity for sustained exercise increases as well.
4 x 200s are fine, and if you can get the times all below 30 seconds, that is better.
You should be in decent shape when your indoor season starts.
I prefer water running, max 15 minutes. If you belong to a big gym with a pool that you can access during the break, 1 or 2 days of water training will really sharpen your 800m times and also allow excellent pace during distance runs. I don't use a float vest anymore, just cup my hands during the pseudo-running motion to help stay afloat. Great workout. -
I disagree. 4-6 mile tempos won’t kill his legs where he won’t be able to hit 200s after. Base phase is to build endurance and aerobic strength, 2 mile tempo isn’t even 12 minutes, whats the point? 4 miles is similar to the staple Jack Daniels 20 min tempo pace, and with consistently getting longer tempos in I am sure he will not only be a better miler, but his performances will translate to the 3200.
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I personally believe that 800/1600m runners don’t really benefit much from tempo runs. You need speed endurance not just endurance. So I would stick with fast running and also longer intervals like 800-1000m. Also no need of very long runs 60-70 min is plenty.
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My recommendation is to go with 20 minute tempos at a good clip (roughly 50-60s slower than mile PR). Longer tempos are for 5k training. The 20 minute tempo is perfect for training a miler. A couple 200s at 800 or mile pace afterward can be a good thing to add in later in the season.
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my 2c wrote:
I think I'll have to disagree on this one. An 800/1600 guy doesn't need 4-6 mile tempos. The tempo workouts he's doing sound like a better option to me. They're more specific to his actual race distances
This is like suggesting dropping 5 mile easy runs and replacing them with 2 mile runs that are slightly faster since they are more "specific". The pace might be closer to race pace but it isn't enough closer to matter.
Given you likely have 5-6 months til you want to run you fastest race, I would be a bit hesitant to do lots of hard intervals. 1 tempo run (or some variation like 4x1 mile with 60s rest, or even CV type
workouts like 6x1000 at 5k pace+10s) and then something like JD reps (400s at 1500m pace with like 3 min rest) seems like a pretty sane way of going for a base. Throw in some hill sprints and just fast 100s and you will have a fine base for the really hard work 8 weeks out from the big race. -
MilerInTraining wrote:
Hey LetsRun, I'm a high school 800/1600 guy about to start racing in a month or so. I haven't raced a mile since sophomore year (I'm a senior now), and I'm hoping to run 4:20-4:25 this year. In the month leading up to my first races of the season, I'd like to work in a track workout and a tempo run each week, in addition to my basic road runs. I'm from a low-ish mileage program, so at the moment I'm hitting 35-40 mpw. My question is, what kind of tempo runs should I do as a miler? I've recently done a 3 mile tempo at 5:35 pace, and a 2 mile tempo at 5:24 pace with 4x200 after at about 30 seconds. How should I adapt these runs as I build up to the season, and what kind of paces should I strive for to hit my goal? Thank you!
Work at your AT and in long reps. Much more value value for money than a generic (slow) tempo. You can do the same mileage with a much better adaptation
Note: you set yourself to fail if you set your training paces based on a "target". If you dont understand what it means hopefully your coach can help you.... -
MilerInTraining wrote:
Hey LetsRun, I'm a high school 800/1600 guy about to start racing in a month or so. I haven't raced a mile since sophomore year (I'm a senior now), and I'm hoping to run 4:20-4:25 this year. In the month leading up to my first races of the season, I'd like to work in a track workout and a tempo run each week, in addition to my basic road runs. I'm from a low-ish mileage program, so at the moment I'm hitting 35-40 mpw. My question is, what kind of tempo runs should I do as a miler? I've recently done a 3 mile tempo at 5:35 pace, and a 2 mile tempo at 5:24 pace with 4x200 after at about 30 seconds. How should I adapt these runs as I build up to the season, and what kind of paces should I strive for to hit my goal? Thank you!
You're a month out from racing. I guess this means you're running indoor? I don't coach a team that competes in indoor, so take this advice for what it's worth:
De-emphasize indoor and think about using those races simply as your harder workouts during your base phase. That's not my advice, It's Coach Mostert's, from American Fork, and to me it makes really good sense.
The mile is mostly an aerobic event, so stick with the stuff that is going to develop aerobic ability for the next 3-4 months while the indoor races serve as your speed / anaerobic stuff.
Longer (30-40 min) tempos at 70-80% current vVO2 max
Shorter (20 ish min) at 75-85% current vVO2
Threshold Intervals of 5 ish minutes at 85% with 1 min easy recovery jog
CV intervals of 3 minutes @ 90% vVO2 with 60-90 seconds recovery jog
All of those sessions accomplish roughly the same things: to develop your aerobic system and specifically to raise your velocity at lactate threshold. So, depending on what type of runner you are and what you prefer, any of those sessions would be beneficial. Add in EITHER 4 x 200 at goal 800 pace with full recovery OR 4 x 300 OR 3 x 400 at current mile pace with full recovery and your week is looking pretty good.
for the intervals, it could be something like 4 x 5 min @ 85% vVO2 OR 5-6 x 3 min at 90% vVO2.
What are your most current race times?
I don't think you said what your cu -
Pretty much this. Alternate weeks of 15-25 minute tempo runs (starting at the low end and building to the high end) at current 5k effort +30-35s/mile (probably about 5:40-5:45 for you) with 20-25 minutes of cruise intervals (1k-1 mile intervals at 20-25s/mile slower than 5k effort, probably 5:30-5:35 for you right now w/ 30s-75s recovery; start with the shorter distances w/ shorter recovery, then lengthen the distance and the recovery, then shorten the recovery). Follow them with a mix of 100-400m reps with full recovery totaling 500-1000m @ efforts varying from 400m effort to mile effort (you could do 5-6 x 100m @ 400 effort one week, 5 x 200m @ mile effort the next week, and 1 x 400/2 x 200/2 x 100 @ mile/800/400 effort the next week; there are more possibilities beyond that, and the key is to mix it up).
I agree that races should be treated as speed workouts for now. Any week without a race you can do a mixed pace workout (a pyramid working from mile to 10k effort and back down, or some tempo intervals sandwiched around some mile- or 2-mile-effort intervals), but that should be a secondary emphasis. Long hill workouts are also great replacements for speed at this time of year (3-5 sets of 2-3 minutes up, walk/jog down a minute, however long it takes to run hard up to the same spot as the previous up segment, easy jog all the way back down is a good one).
Good luck! -
I'll take this opportunity to shamelessly plug my pace charts. They're based on a 6 minute all out time trial for distance. So, if you ran 1960m in 6 minutes, use the 1950 line on the pace charts. If you can currently do 2k in 6 min, you've got a pretty good shot at your goal of mid 4:20s.
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Yes , tempos are awesome . Shoot for 5:45 per for miles . Can u do that now ?
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The mile is still a mostly aerobic event. So yes tempos of any short will be beneficial. Look at how much threshold running the Ingebrigtsens are apparently doing.
I like to break them into intervals. It’s easier mentally, physically, and prevents one from turning it into a time trial. Also the intervals feel more like hard miler training.
So threshold tempo stuff like this....
On the track....
10 x 1k w/ 1 minute rest jog
5 x 1600m w / 2 minute rest jog
3 x 3200m w / 3 minute rest jog
Or off the track
10 x 3 minutes w/ 1 minute rest jog
5 x 6 minutes w/ 2 minute rest jog
3 x 10 minutes w/ 3 minute rest jog
For your threshold pace plug a current race/time trial into the many online calculators. Don’t keep trying to run faster tempos without first racing faster. It’s just too easy to turn a tempo into something it shouldn’t be.
