BTC/Jerry Schumacher training philosophy

dhehsisub wrote:

Thanks again for posting all of this. The recoveries for the VO2 and faster stuff are longer than I thought they would be for many of the workouts. You do see 1:1 rest in there but it’s often longer.

That might be a misunderstanding of the notation but I'd love to get some clarity there if possible.

F 2 x 1200/800/400 (4) - Does this mean 400 jog rest or 4 minute rest?

800/2x400/600/300 (4) - Same Question

3x400 (2), (4), 800, (4), 3x200 (1) - 3 x 400 w/ 2min rest or 200? 4min between or 400? 1min after the 200 or 100?

7x300/100 jog, (8), 500/400/300/200 (3) - 300 jogs for that cutdown or 3 minutes? 8 minutes or 800 jog after the 300's?

mile, 1200, 800, 400, mile (4) - 4 minute or 400 rest?

3 x (3x400 (1), (3) / 1200) (4) - I can't tell if this is 3 sets of 3 x 400 + 1200, and then I have no idea about the rests

There are a bunch like that. Some seem like they're referring to minutes obviously but with others it seems like that would be a silly amount of rest.

I agree, WorkingStiff, would love to know because I might go ahead and copy this training / scale it to myself

2 x 1200/800/400 (4) - 4 minute rest

800/2x400/600/300 (4) - As above

3x400 (2), (4), 800, (4), 3x200 (1) - 3 x 400 w/ 2min rest on 4’s and 4min before starting 8. 1min between 2’s

7x300/100 jog, (8), 500/400/300/200 (3) -

3 minutes. 8 minutes after the 300's

mile, 1200, 800, 400, mile (4) - 4 minute rest

3 x (3x400 (1), (3) / 1200) (4) - I can't tell if this is 3 sets of 3 x 400 + 1200, and then I have no idea about the rests-3 sets of 3x4 with 1 minute rest plus 1200 on 3 minutes rest. 4 minutes between sets.

Very cool - thanks for putting this together.

One thing that I'n not seeing here are the "rhythm runs" that were a staple back in the Solinsky days. Did Schumacher move away from using those? Did they get folded into the long runs?

It's 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200, 4 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200, 4 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200. I understand how my notation might be confusing. Is there some sort of official notation that I could read about?

Hi nosam, maybe just specifying (4min) or (400j) would be more clear. You did a great job though and thank you for sharing this valuable info

going faster miles an hour wrote:

Very cool - thanks for putting this together.

One thing that I'n not seeing here are the "rhythm runs" that were a staple back in the Solinsky days. Did Schumacher move away from using those? Did they get folded into the long runs?

Some long runs are of a progressive nature, progressing from 5k pace + 2min/mile to about Marathon pace + 1 min for the last half of the run. This isn't all long runs though. The rest of the easy runs are run at an very easy - easy pace.

thrice a runner wrote:

Hi nosam, maybe just specifying (4min) or (400j) would be more clear. You did a great job though and thank you for sharing this valuable info

Ok I will try do this next time

nosam wrote:

It's 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200, 4 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200, 4 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 1 minute rest, 400, 3 minute rest, 1200. I understand how my notation might be confusing. Is there some sort of official notation that I could read about?

No, that's all good. I just wondered, when you put a number in parenthesis, does it always mean "minutes"? If so, I totally get it, just seems like a lot of rest on some of those so I wasn't clear.

For that other one, I might've put 3 x (3 x 400/1min, 3min rest, 1200, 4min rest). There's no official notation though I don't think. You're all good!

Awesome thread, the most informative that I have read over the last half-year.

What does this mean ?

3 mile/1 mile/ 3mile/ 1mile

Not familiar with that verbiage. Fartlek? 3 m Tempos with 1 mile rest?

Thanks

Question for the more experienced runners here - would training like this cause a lot of injury? I see a lot of folks on here talk about how BTC women are always injured because Jerry pushes them to the brink.

So, from a sort of daniels perspective, I noticed a lot of 200 -300s? For a 5000 person (or any person) this would not amount to enough time to be an 'interval" work out. Those are best done at 3+ min as everyone here knows. So are they running those at rep speed? Which is to say >95%? If so, why not recover much longer between reps since the purpose is strength and speed?

Or, are they shortening the recovery to make them into intervals- sort of artificially?

In other words, 10 x 300 with 100 jog (60sec?) to me is neither a speed work out (too short a recovery) nor a interval work out (not long enough work bout)? What gives? Im sure its hard though.

Running fast causes improvments

Let’s say you do 10x200 in 30 off 200m jog in 60. It’s not all out speed and it’s not 5k pace. It’s probably somewhere between mile & 3k pace for BTC runners. It’s building efficiency and creating rhythm at a fast speed. It’s not about building fatigue. It’s about having good form and cruising at a pace that will make 5k goal pace feel a lot easier - atleast that is my interpretation and opinion

So, by definition more supra intervalish speed, sub pure speed work, but in a fartlek manner.

I put together a log of the women's 2018-2019 build for doha recently and I think some of you might want to see it so I've linked it below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xjmOWcx6hmWmPRSX7tIaiWo1dd_haQZXwjRZL3doIKU/edit?usp=drivesdk

btcdohatraining wrote:

I put together a log of the women's 2018-2019 build for doha recently and I think some of you might want to see it so I've linked it below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xjmOWcx6hmWmPRSX7tIaiWo1dd_haQZXwjRZL3doIKU/edit?usp=drivesdk

Thank you! Great info.