Arghhhh!
Arghhhh!
Nice recovery attempt OP but looks like there are no British runners 4-0 against Aouita.
Sorry Britain.
Aouita never won an Olympics or world title at 1500m the blue riband event. He never beat Cram when it mattered either.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Aouita never won an Olympics or world title at 1500m the blue riband event. He never beat Cram when it mattered either.
And yet Aouita was the superior runner. No doubt.
XXXX wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Aouita never won an Olympics or world title at 1500m the blue riband event. He never beat Cram when it mattered either.
And yet Aouita was the superior runner. No doubt.
Nonsense. Remember Aouita was the same age as Cram, yet they didn't race until 1983 because Aouita was stuck in the B circuit. Might have met in the heats of the Moscow Olympics if it wasn't for the Morrocan boycott.
Cram had terrible luck with injury problems. No doubt at his peak in the 2nd half of 1985 he was better than Aouita's best. After his defeat to Cram in Nice, Aouita dodged him like the plague, just as he had been dodging Coe and Ovett. If Cram had ran the 5000m more often he would have been sub 13 too. He ran 13:20 or thereabouts solo on a windy Gateshead track long after his prime.
Aouita finished with one bronze medal (Helsinki WC) at 1500m. Cram won Olympic silver and reached three 1500m Olympic finals, as well as 2 x European and Commonwealth golds at 1500.
Not to mention Aouita copied the Brit's training methods, especially Coe, topped up with a Moroccan diet of peas and carrots.
XXXX wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Aouita never won an Olympics or world title at 1500m the blue riband event. He never beat Cram when it mattered either.
And yet Aouita was the superior runner. No doubt.
No doubt.
Number 1 in the 800 meter one year.
Number 1 in the 10k another year.
Unmatched
The Unkle wrote:
XXXX wrote:
And yet Aouita was the superior runner. No doubt.
No doubt.
Number 1 in the 800 meter one year.
Number 1 in the 10k another year.
Unmatched
Aouita had range but was never really a 1500 runner. He just happened to be fast at the event. He has both WC & Olympic Gold, yes? That’s two more golds than Cram.
Can you do another quiz for us zxcvxzcv?
Here’s one...
How many runners have broken 1:44, 3:30, 7:30, and 13:00?
Just curious
Only one runner has ever ran the table from 800 to HM with
sub 1:45
sub 3:30
sub 7:30
sub 13
sub 60
No doubt 800+ GOAT Augustine Choge would run a sub 27 10,000 if he cared about this, before capping it with whatever the marathon barrier is, I'd put it at sub 2:05.
Aouita getting to 1:43 is countered by Choge getting under 12:55, and then the sub 60s settle any remaining discussion. Aouita was pretty good though. Certainly better than any Briton could beat four times.
A better trivia question should be, has ANYONE gone 4-0 against Aouita? Morceli maybe?
Bad Wigins wrote:
Only one runner has ever ran the table from 800 to HM with
sub 1:45
sub 3:30
sub 7:30
sub 13
sub 60
No doubt 800+ GOAT Augustine Choge would run a sub 27 10,000 if he cared about this, before capping it with whatever the marathon barrier is, I'd put it at sub 2:05.
Aouita getting to 1:43 is countered by Choge getting under 12:55, and then the sub 60s settle any remaining discussion. Aouita was pretty good though. Certainly better than any Briton could beat four times.
A better trivia question should be, has ANYONE gone 4-0 against Aouita? Morceli maybe?
I’m not sure but Morceli definitely beat him. While probably doped to the gills, Morceli went 1:44, 3:27, and 7:25 but could never get under 13:00. Choge is the most impressive.
Golden goose wrote:
I’m not sure but Morceli definitely beat him. While probably doped to the gills, Morceli went 1:44, 3:27, and 7:25 but could never get under 13:00. Choge is the most impressive.
I think they only raced those 2 times in 1991. I sort of doubt anyone else had 4 wins against him. Other than cram he was basically unbeatable from 1984-1990 and he didn't race much before or after that.
adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:
Golden goose wrote:
I’m not sure but Morceli definitely beat him. While probably doped to the gills, Morceli went 1:44, 3:27, and 7:25 but could never get under 13:00. Choge is the most impressive.
I think they only raced those 2 times in 1991. I sort of doubt anyone else had 4 wins against him. Other than cram he was basically unbeatable from 1984-1990 and he didn't race much before or after that.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
Said88 has finally put up Aouita's complete race record for all to scrutinize.
Aouita did race a lot before 1983, it's just that he was competing at a much lower level so didn't face many of the big names. He still lost a lot.
From the winter of 82, he moved to Italy which was the home of blood doping at that time. He moved up another level immediately ( he was the same age as Cram who had already competed in an Olympic final and won European and Commonwealth gold). He was one of the favourites going into Helsinki but finished 3rd, despite Coe not being there and Ovett running the worst race of his life. He came 5th in a mile shortly after Helsinki. I think Steve Scott and an Irish runner (maybe Ray Flynn) had 2 or 3 wins against him at that point, as did a couple of East Germans.
In the winter he started training in the USA, where synthetic HGH had just become available and was already transforming American sprint times. Aouita later was chased out of his role as Australian coach for telling his athletes they must take HGH in order to win.
In 84 he didn't fancy his chances against Coe, Ovett, and Cram in LA, so chose to run in a weak 5000m, despite not racing the distance for 2 years and only once breaking 14 minutes in numerous attempts. After a spell working with Mexican doctors at altitude, he duly won the 5000m. For the next 6 years he dodged his major 1500 rivals aside from Nice in 85, when it appeared Cram was injured and out of sorts but was actually running back into peak form and able to break the WR in 3:29 (he was in 3:27 form later that season, which is why Aouita dodged him from then on).
After 89, years of ped induced insane workouts caught up with Said and he went downhill. People forget he carried on until 95, longer than Coe, Cram, or Ovett, so he picked up quite a few defeats. I think Matthew Yates had at least 3 or 4 wins against him, though did lose once. Cram picked up a couple of late career wins against him, as did even John Walker. I think Cram finished with something like a 6-2 record against him.
Mary Decker ranked #1 in the world at 10,000m in 1982 (set WR that year 31:35) and #10 at 800m in 1985 (1:57.35).
Coevett wrote:
adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:
I think they only raced those 2 times in 1991. I sort of doubt anyone else had 4 wins against him. Other than cram he was basically unbeatable from 1984-1990 and he didn't race much before or after that.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
Said88 has finally put up Aouita's complete race record for all to scrutinize.
Aouita did race a lot before 1983, it's just that he was competing at a much lower level so didn't face many of the big names. He still lost a lot.
From the winter of 82, he moved to Italy which was the home of blood doping at that time. He moved up another level immediately ( he was the same age as Cram who had already competed in an Olympic final and won European and Commonwealth gold). He was one of the favourites going into Helsinki but finished 3rd, despite Coe not being there and Ovett running the worst race of his life. He came 5th in a mile shortly after Helsinki. I think Steve Scott and an Irish runner (maybe Ray Flynn) had 2 or 3 wins against him at that point, as did a couple of East Germans.
In the winter he started training in the USA, where synthetic HGH had just become available and was already transforming American sprint times. Aouita later was chased out of his role as Australian coach for telling his athletes they must take HGH in order to win.
In 84 he didn't fancy his chances against Coe, Ovett, and Cram in LA, so chose to run in a weak 5000m, despite not racing the distance for 2 years and only once breaking 14 minutes in numerous attempts. After a spell working with Mexican doctors at altitude, he duly won the 5000m. For the next 6 years he dodged his major 1500 rivals aside from Nice in 85, when it appeared Cram was injured and out of sorts but was actually running back into peak form and able to break the WR in 3:29 (he was in 3:27 form later that season, which is why Aouita dodged him from then on).
After 89, years of ped induced insane workouts caught up with Said and he went downhill. People forget he carried on until 95, longer than Coe, Cram, or Ovett, so he picked up quite a few defeats. I think Matthew Yates had at least 3 or 4 wins against him, though did lose once. Cram picked up a couple of late career wins against him, as did even John Walker. I think Cram finished with something like a 6-2 record against him.
Great to read this post. 'bout time.
Coevett wrote:
adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:
I think they only raced those 2 times in 1991. I sort of doubt anyone else had 4 wins against him. Other than cram he was basically unbeatable from 1984-1990 and he didn't race much before or after that.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
Said88 has finally put up Aouita's complete race record for all to scrutinize.
Aouita did race a lot before 1983, it's just that he was competing at a much lower level so didn't face many of the big names. He still lost a lot.
From the winter of 82, he moved to Italy which was the home of blood doping at that time. He moved up another level immediately ( he was the same age as Cram who had already competed in an Olympic final and won European and Commonwealth gold). He was one of the favourites going into Helsinki but finished 3rd, despite Coe not being there and Ovett running the worst race of his life. He came 5th in a mile shortly after Helsinki. I think Steve Scott and an Irish runner (maybe Ray Flynn) had 2 or 3 wins against him at that point, as did a couple of East Germans.
In the winter he started training in the USA, where synthetic HGH had just become available and was already transforming American sprint times. Aouita later was chased out of his role as Australian coach for telling his athletes they must take HGH in order to win.
In 84 he didn't fancy his chances against Coe, Ovett, and Cram in LA, so chose to run in a weak 5000m, despite not racing the distance for 2 years and only once breaking 14 minutes in numerous attempts. After a spell working with Mexican doctors at altitude, he duly won the 5000m. For the next 6 years he dodged his major 1500 rivals aside from Nice in 85, when it appeared Cram was injured and out of sorts but was actually running back into peak form and able to break the WR in 3:29 (he was in 3:27 form later that season, which is why Aouita dodged him from then on).
After 89, years of ped induced insane workouts caught up with Said and he went downhill. People forget he carried on until 95, longer than Coe, Cram, or Ovett, so he picked up quite a few defeats. I think Matthew Yates had at least 3 or 4 wins against him, though did lose once. Cram picked up a couple of late career wins against him, as did even John Walker. I think Cram finished with something like a 6-2 record against him.
Not defending Aouita or Morceli (or El Guerouj), but there is no evidence that Cram wasn’t doping either. That stuff was readily available for all runners during that era. I’m not saying he did, but I think it’s naive to just implicate Aouita and nobody else. If you want to pick a dope-free Brit, I’d probably put Moorcroft at the top of the list.
Coevett wrote:
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
I notice how you didn't give 1 example of an athlete that went 4-0 against him. If I am wrong, you should have no problem giving at least 1 right?
I am not sure Coe, Ovett, Cram, or Aouita were every in the anyone/anywhere camp and we have shockingly few races between them. Who was dodging who was hard to say.
And yeah Aouita being on PEDs would be one of the safer bets in T&F. Maybe a bit lower than Kratochvílova but not by much:)
There's no evidence that Cram wasn't doping so he was just as likely to have been as Aouita? Aouita who went form b level to GOAT in the space of a year or two at age 23, the exact same year he moved to the Mecca of doping at the time, and the same year hgh became available? The same Aouiita whom was chased out of Australia after pressurizing athletes to take peds and whose Belgian doctor (docteur syringe) was busted for supplying dozens of athletes and cyclists with EPO? The same Aouita from a country infamous for doping busts of middle-distance runners? The same Aouita who was self-coached and claimed to have discovered 'special methods' yet has been an abject failure in every coaching role he has been given?
I don't think Moorcroft doped, but curious to know why you think somebody who ran 13:00 solo in 1982 and not much else was more likely to have doped than Cram who ran a sub 4 mile at 17 when his parents couldn't afford to buy him a proper pair of running shoes?
Cram was my year in school
He had the same spikes as the rest of us including back in the English schools in 1975 when he finished 3rd in cross country and 4th in the 1500
I have no idea where you got the idea he couldn’t afford proper running shoes in 1978.
adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
I notice how you didn't give 1 example of an athlete that went 4-0 against him. If I am wrong, you should have no problem giving at least 1 right?
Who needs that when you have Cram in "3:27 form." Wow. Impressive.