Running 4x800 relay: how much will order affect our time?

Record Breakers wrote:

The team is trying to break the school record of 7:45.76. The 4 runners all went sub-2 800 but we are still trying to figure out the best order to run our best time.

PRs are below:

Runner

A 1:56

B 1:58

C 1:54

D 1:57

As of now, we are thinking BCDA

any thoughts?

cheers!

Looks pretty good, our team was in a similar spot time wise as you were in high school just a tad slower, and we would do our 2nd fastest guy first, and fastest as anchor. Whatever you do, don't lead off with a guy who will end up 2 seconds ahead of the field. Look over your competition each race to make sure this doesn't happen, or your second guy may run a few seconds off his potential. Unless he's a good front runner.

Racing style and personality matters a bit. Your lead off guy needs to be a bruiser who can fight for position but also knows how to race solo if it comes to it. You can't have a lead off guy who will "run to the field"--he needs to be a guy who can run his best time every time.

I always run my fastest guy either second (if I don't think we will have the lead after leg 1) or anchor. Slowest guy almost always runs third.

The best strategy regardless is the one where each guy on the team feels most comfortable.

This is such a weird coincidence I was just thinking about this question before I saw it. I would say the only thing that would have a real impact is the guy that goes first. Three guys will all be running a flying 800, except the first guy, who has gotta start from standing. So to take advantage of this, you gotta determine which of you is the most speed-biased 800 meter runner and put him first. The miler-type 800 guys can shave off a second or two off their PR when given a running start, but for speed guys its a little less drastic. So don't waste that opportunity for a miler type to lop off some time guy by making him go first from a standing start. The guy who's more of a 400 guy doesn't lose quite as much because their acceleration is not hopelessly atrocious, as any miler's acceleration would (and should) be. Keep in mind this doesn't mean that the guy with the best 400m ability goes first, just the guy who's 800 is most reliant on their good 400 time, rather than reliant on their good mile time, so the most fast twitch guy. So if the 1:54 guy's 400 is 52 low, and the 158 guy's is 52 high, put the 158 guy first. In my example the difference is pretty marginal, ideally you have a guy who's barely even an 800 runner and he can blast a 49-50 second open 400, and you can throw him in first, and all the slow twitchers get to enjoy their running start.

Runners B and D are the only milers from those 4 runners.

Here are our other PRs:

A 800 1:56, 600 1:22, 1000m 2:32

B 800 1:58, 1000m 2:35, 1mile 4:21

C 800 1:54, 600 1:20, 1000m 2:30

D 800 1:57, 1000m 2:33 1mile 4:18

Definitely don't go with B first then. With such a good mile, as a 1:58 800 runner he may go 1:56 in a relay. Same thing with D. So I'd say start with A because like that other guy said, you wanna avoid the fastest guy going first so that you guys don't all have to run solo. Looks like a great team though so you might have solo it regardless. If you think your going to blow out your competition maybe for the rest of the legs go slowest to fastest so that there's some hope of running with competition, otherwise the order of the other legs shouldn't matter.

D A B C

I’d say B A D C you wanna finish strong. Start with B let AD make up some ground and C should be in good position to close hard.

7:21 in college wrote:

D A B C

Yeah this

Record Breakers wrote:

Runners B and D are the only milers from those 4 runners.

Here are our other PRs:

A 800 1:56, 600 1:22, 1000m 2:32

B 800 1:58, 1000m 2:35, 1mile 4:21

C 800 1:54, 600 1:20, 1000m 2:30

D 800 1:57, 1000m 2:33 1mile 4:18

Could you also list the 400m times?

1. What will the competition be like when you go for this?

Is it the state meet or New Balance Nationals?

Many of the top 25 all-time 4 x 800m relays were run at New Balance Nationals.

2. How competitive are A,B, C, and D?

Can they run alone?

We won almost every relay my HS junior year. Three of us were winners, and disliked losing so much. One guy was not good enough, and was replaced by a winner from the fresh-soph conference for our state meet, and then our team ran one of the fastest times ever.

3. Our fastest 400m guy was also a great 800m runner, and we almost always had a lead, which the 2nd runner would barely hold, or would lose.

Prior to the state meet, as 3rd leg I always handed off with a lead, usually because I had a lead and then ran away from other teams.

Our anchor was one of the best 800m runners in the state, and who also ran a very fast 400m (he led off that relay).

When we replaced the 2nd leg with a 15-year old freshman that won the fresh-soph conference (also could have replaced 2nd leg with a 15-year old sophomore), then we had 4 guys who could comfortably break 2.

However, the state meet was incredibly fast, mostly because of all the 400m runners in the state who had trained to run the 800m. The leaders were going out in 54-55 seconds for the 1st lap of their leg, and our lead-off guy was dead last off the 1st turn. But he was a winner, and very fast, so he worked his way through the crowd and finished very strong. Our 2nd runner ran brilliantly, so I got the baton in good position and not far behind the lead teams. I didn't get the lead (mistake on my part), but handed off so that we were near the lead team. Our anchor ran very fast, but this final had several anchors running very fast times, and we got third with least the first 5 teams running amazing times.

Lots of teams running amazing times is the scenario you may face if at New Balance Nationals....

My analysis of your team?

I) So, because the 1st guy may have to run in traffic, they must be winner with very good leg speed, a good kick if necessary, and a strong 800m . In your case, that sounds like A.

II) The 2nd leg must be able to run fast if alone in the lead, and run a PB is he is not in the lead, and that sounds like B.

III) The 3rd leg has to be able to push the pace if ahead and catch anyone if not, and that sounds like D.

IV) The anchor must be a great 800m runner, and expects to win when he runs. He must have the talent and the heart to handle the fast times of other anchors, and that sounds like C.

ABDC.

Only our anchor graduated, so the next year we were again expected to be record setters.

1st leg: the sophomore from the previous year would have led off (he ran 50.3 2nd leg on relay as a soph at state and was a great 800m runner).

2nd leg would have been 2nd leg the previous year, no change. He was a 800m/1600m guy.

3rd leg would have been the lead-off guy from the previous year. He had anchored 47.9 400m in state meet.

4th leg: me. I was 800m/1600m type runner.

Make sure your lead off leg can race in a crowd and protect that baton.

Lead off with the guy who is least comfortable front running and is a pure racer.

Or simply the slowest runner so the second leg is more in contact with the competition or maybe has someone to chase.

Close with with whoever seems to be the best solo time trialer.

Of the remaining two, put the more experienced runner second to be able to jockey for and get a clean handoff.

Hopefully that third runner has a good sense of pace without hearing the 400 split. None of the last three runners get to hear that split.

Yes, several ways to do it and alot depends on the individuals. It's also different if it's a highly competitive race you are trying to win vs having slow competition that could hurt your Time trial (not many HS teams out there with 4 PRs). I'd run my most consistent guy first, especially if the other teams may not have a 1.5X starting. Don't want somebody who feeds off the competition and actually runs slower because he doesnt have anybody pushing him...want somebody who can get a solid time regardless (fastest guy blowing away the pack may actually hurt you laterlater if you have runners that need motivation(ie the chase). Slowest 3rd...The fastest, guy who has that competitive drive at the end to push it past the limit

If we are talking a HS team and your slowest guy is 1:58.......run him first and let him race. He will go 1:55 if he can hang with others. The rest are likely running solo anyways at that time

Its more about your competition and how they will run.

And how your guys run from behind or in front.

Obviously if you have someone who can't run from behind, don't put him in that situation. If you are going to be way ahead, don't put your guy who can't run from the front, in that leg.

I assume this is a race, not a time trial.

I thought typical logic was the slowest guy runs 2nd. What would be the logic for putting the slowest guy third?

so true wrote:

Its more about your competition and how they will run.

And how your guys run from behind or in front.

Obviously if you have someone who can't run from behind, don't put him in that situation. If you are going to be way ahead, don't put your guy who can't run from the front, in that leg.

I assume this is a race, not a time trial.

The OP stated the goal is to break the school record, I guess winning or placing might not be as important as time. Nevertheless your points are important considerations

76chine wrote:

Could you also list the 400m times?

400PRs

A 49high

B 50high

C 49low

D 50low

all runners can split sub 50 on the 4x400 relays

so true wrote:

Its more about your competition and how they will run.

And how your guys run from behind or in front.

Obviously if you have someone who can't run from behind, don't put him in that situation. If you are going to be way ahead, don't put your guy who can't run from the front, in that leg.

The race will be very competitive, my team (7:49) is ranked 5th overall out of 10 teams. The fast team has 7:39 and the slowest team has 7:53

At this point my team is more concerned about breaking 7:45 than winning, I mean we would love to win but we would have to run out of our minds to beat the 7:39 team if they run with their top guys.