Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill to Ban Biological Men From Women’s Sports

It is entirely speculative to suggest that only mediocre male athletes will compete as trans athletes. It is quite possible that trans athletes could include gifted male athletes. Renee Richards, the '70's tennis player, is a case in point. She took tennis up quite late and competed - successfully as a professional - against women in her 30's. She now says that if she had competed a decade earlier no woman would have stood a chance against her.

Intrasex runners were considered to be women so there was no transition was involved; they were not giving a world class career as a guy to run as woman. I believe that they will no longer be able to run without testosterone suppression?

The problem is that for a world class male runner doing so is not practical. They're going to have to sit out for a year and there is no guarantee how competitive they will run as a woman. Yeah, only transphobes will hate them but being booed at meets having high profile people and politicians taking shots at you on Twitter is going to be unpleasant. Waiting until my competitive career was over to transgender would be an easy decision for me. Running 3:55 is a fantastic time and it must be a rush to run that fast. There's no way I would trade that for a 4:25.

They're is no example of your average guy becoming a champion as a female. Eastwood was at almost exactly the same competitive level as a male and as a female. I believe her HS times were consistent with what she did in college. We can't read her mind so we don't know if she expected to become a 1500 NCAA champion as a woman.

The Connecticut sprinters could run without treatment so an average male could be a champion as a female in that scenario but they won't be able to do that as a NCAA or professional athlete. They also weren't eligible for scholarships.

What would be the path for a transgender female to be a champion at the NCAA level? It would probably require a HS boy with 8:50 talent. There are no drug treatments so does he run that time as a male and then risk his scholarship by transgendering in college or as a girl and not receive a scholarship out of HS. Considering that the person has about 60+ years remaining in his/her life, waiting a few years to transition is the easy decision.

In your cyclist example, you say "he" already has the Olympic qualifying. Were those times achieved after testosterone suppression treatments? If not, she hasn't qualified.

You're last paragraph moves away from the discussion of transgender competing against women. I'm not a proponent of MTF athletes competing but it's been settled in court. I'm confident the rules in place will prevent there ever being one competing at a high level of any sport that I care about. It's unlikely a professional female distance runner will ever compete against a transgender female so none will have to rollover to accommodate guys.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

They're is no example of your average guy becoming a champion as a female. Eastwood was at almost exactly the same competitive level as a male and as a female. I believe her HS times were consistent with what she did in college. We can't read her mind so we don't know if she expected to become a 1500 NCAA champion as a woman.

Laurel Hubbard was a mediocre weightlifter as a man (and over the hill as well), and then became a world silver medalist as a woman. No trans athlete was a serious podium threat until Hubbard. But now that we have one, it is clear the current system is not leveling the playing field.

I know you don't care about weightlifting. But IOC does. And if it doesn't work for weightlifting, it may not work for shot put either. A mediocre male shot putter (18-19m guy) could become a world class shot putter as a woman. You may not care about shot put, but World Athletics does. Just because it is not a serious problem in distance running, it does not mean nothing needs to be changed.

And here is another thought. An FTM athlete is not likely to perform at the comparable level after transition. If an All American female transitions to a male, he won't become an All American male athlete. This is essentially a one-way street. So it reduces the opportunity for women at every level. Another runner would have won the Big Sky indoor title if Eastwood had not been there. You may not care about the Big Sky conference championships. but there are people who do.

Your view is not only hurtful to trans people, it's unconstitutional under Bostock v. Clayton County (2020 SCOTUS case) which found that trans people are protected by the 1964 civil rights act. How could a woman displace another woman? A trans woman is no different than what you call a "female" under the law.

Testing for the presence/absence of the Y chromosome is extremely easy and inexpensive.

The basic "23 and me" and Ancestry dna test kits include this.

It's so easy, clear, and incontrovertible:

"If you have a Y Chromosome, you cannot participate in Women's sports."

Although most people have XX or XY, this approach covers any combination of Chromosomes.

Y Chromosome wrote:

Testing for the presence/absence of the Y chromosome is extremely easy and inexpensive.

The basic "23 and me" and Ancestry dna test kits include this.

It's so easy, clear, and incontrovertible:

"If you have a Y Chromosome, you cannot participate in Women's sports."

Although most people have XX or XY, this approach covers any combination of Chromosomes.

Great then we can have all the same debates that lead to dropping chromosome testing in the first place:)

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Laurel Hubbard was a mediocre weightlifter as a man (and over the hill as well), and then became a world silver medalist as a woman. No trans athlete was a serious podium threat until Hubbard. But now that we have one, it is clear the current system is not leveling the playing field.

.

She is lifting less now than she did as a junior after 20 more years of training. She did 285 (from wikipedia feel free to add in others) while the records is up at 348 so it isn't like she is better than the best woman. The snatch record is up at 148 while she won a medal with 124. I am not convinced she is much better than when she was a national record holder as a junior. But I am guessing that the 90kg+ woman's olympic weightlifting is a pretty shallow talent pool.

Go away.

The whole world doesn't stop to fit the 'different' into the dance.

Live with your stuff. If you are a wallflower, sit in the corner.

Too much thought and resource is going into trying to make .002% of the population feel comfortable. Focus on leaving them to live their lives. If they want to race, race. If you have the man parts or had them, un in men's races. Who cares where you finish? The number of real winners are so few. Just enjoy the race.

And the rest of you mind your own business.

You are right about the lack of depth in women's weightlifting. But the male advantage in performance is much bigger in weightlifting than in running. See figure 1 in the article below. The authors claims that "...given the plausible disadvantages with testosterone suppression mentioned in this section, together with the more marginal male advantage in endurance-based sports, the balance between inclusion and fairness is likely closer to equilibrium in weight-bearing endurance-based sports compared with strength-based sports where the male advantage is still substantial."

They suggest that the current policy is not adequate for strength based sports.

Refresh my memory:

What were the debates about using the presence/absence of the Y Chromosome as the determining factor?

No, sports classifications should be based on sex, easy enough. If a few people with developmental defects that lead to gender disphoria (yes, the latest research shows that gender disphoria/transgenderism happens because of sexual mismatch of hormones and phenotypic traits that occurs during development) or intersex traits don't get to participate with others of their gender identity (but still participate, so nobody's being excluded from sports) - tough sh!t, life isn't fair and college sports are not a right. If not, then remove the SEX classifications, because it's not fair for men to steal opportunities from women because people want to be woke and PC. If you remove the sex classifications and unify male/female teams, say goodbye to females participating in college sports, because odds are 99% of female athletes won't be able to make a college team.

So there are your choices - let the SEXES compete with one another, or not have female sports at all.

The IOC, IAAF and NCAA didn't take one of your two choices so there must be a third.

wawaweewa wrote:

No, sports classifications should be based on sex, easy enough.

+1

We've been lectured for years about how sex and gender are different. And I get it now! So sports are always separated by sex, not gender. Be whatever gender you want (silly as that concept may be, but whatever), but sex is where the division lies.

Simple. Not sure why we are overthinking this.

Thank You!

I'm not sure what the IOC/IAAF policies are, but the NCAA allows for transgender athletes to compete outside of their assigned-sex, therefore eliminating actual female-only sports and creating two co-ed divisions labeled Male and Female. Maybe the IAAF and IOC haven't succumbed to the lunacy yet. Luckily, high school sporting leagues have people like Tulsi Gabbard protecting the integrity of female sports and the opportunities of young girls.