22 Japanese high school boys broke 14:00 this year. Only 9 American HSers have EVER done it

76chine wrote:

I've seen top African distance runners in person, and many of them are so small and slight that it is almost impossible to believe their performances are not based on PEDs

Now that doesn't make much sense. Many of the world's best distance runners have been small. Geb was tiny. So was Gerry Lindgren.

Even El G looked like a whippet pup next to a Clydesdale like Paul McMullen.

If anything, that should just tell you that being small-boned and light is an advantage in distance running.

How many TOTAL Japanese boys have broken 4 in the mile (3:42 in the 1500) or 1:50 in the 800?

Taro wrote:

They should move down in distance wrote:

If I lived in Japan or was a coach in Japan I would encourage my athletes to run the 800 or 1500.

But I think if you really were a coach at a Japanese high school, university, or corporation, you would be under tremendous pressure to produce the strongest ekiden team you can, because that's what gets all the coverage here.

Just like American universities with high-budget football and basketball programs, all of those organizations want to see their teams on TV, and the ekidens -- not track or x-country -- are what gets the lion's share of the TV coverage here.

Maybe so, but if I was producing national track champions I think that the university I coached at would be happy. I’d rather be among the best in an unpopular event (even though the 800 and 1500 are among the most popular events everywhere but Japan) then put in the same effort it would take to be the best in the middle distances but be towards the middle of the pack in the 5 and 10k. That’s just me, don’t really understand why other Japanese coaches don’t think like that.

bun and pony wrote:...

Wasn't LV a 16 year old "high school" freshman? Funny how all the age cheats end up at byu and oregon.

Lukas absolutely would have been on here and dare I say could have challenged the outright record...but due to his triathlon training, he didn't run outdoor track at school. He did a couple invitational miles and two miles, but never an outdoor 5000. He ran like 14:06 indoors though.

shoes shoes shoes wrote:

Using just a few data points from this year and lining up average speed ratings and 5k track times, I estimate a 14 minute track 5k as earning about a 202 speed rating. An average 182 XC runner could take a legit run at sub 15 on the track.

Does that sound about right?

That would suggest the fastest performances this year are probably equivalently over 14:10 on the track.

Bill Meylan speed rated a track 5k this year and 14:00 would get a 203, so you’re right on the money there.

Its probably because they wear masks all the time

Ncaa ruler wrote:

No. He was barely 18.

And if you check most of the top BYU runners, they were on the young end when they started.

Conner Mantz. Born in 1996. Didn't graduate high school until 2015. A freshman at byu in 2017 - 2018. That ain't the young end, except by the grandpa byu standards. He'll be at least 26 or 27 before he leaves byu, probably older.

Name a single one at byu who were on the young end when they started. Name a single one at byu who finished their eligibility at 21 or 22, which is the norm for non-age-cheating schools.

bun and pony wrote:

Ncaa ruler wrote:

No. He was barely 18.

And if you check most of the top BYU runners, they were on the young end when they started.

Conner Mantz. Born in 1996. Didn't graduate high school until 2015. A freshman at byu in 2017 - 2018. That ain't the young end, except by the grandpa byu standards. He'll be at least 26 or 27 before he leaves byu, probably older.

Name a single one at byu who were on the young end when they started. Name a single one at byu who finished their eligibility at 21 or 22, which is the norm for non-age-cheating schools.

Slight change - Mantz was born in 1996, and listed as a freshman on the byu website in 2018 - 2019. A 22 year old freshman. Yeah, that's the young end.

It does seem like some East Asian cultures value school more than university effort for whatever reason. After a certain age they just want to get a job and aren't interested in academics as much. Whereas Asian American (like most people here) seem to be more the reverse... Taking college effort more seriously than high school. Obviously none of this is universally true, just my limited anecdotal observations.

RunningOtaku wrote:

[quote]zxczxcv wrote:

I would bet that many of the Japanese high school runners are a year ahead of their American counterparts, because they will be at most 18 years old on March 31 in their last year, which means that many of them will turn 19 that same year, all those with birthdays in April through December. /quote]

Actually, the opposite is true. Japanese and American high schoolers are generally 18 at graduation. In the U.S. the big high school meets are 1-2 months before graduation whereas in Japan they are 7 months before graduation. So, on average, the Japanese high school seniors are about 6 months younger than their American counterparts when running the big races.

It seems that you didn't read what I said. Japanese are eligible for hs if they turn 19 on April 1 or later. So, many are a year older than the typical American athlete in hs. Typical Americans turn 18 the year they graduate. About 10% of boys in recent years have been held back and so would turn 19 the year they graduate. If a top meet was in December, at least half of the Japanese athletes would be roughly 18 1/2. At top meets in May-June, most U.S. athletes would be 18 and several months, some would be 17 and, say, 9-11 months, and an increasing number in some states would be 19 or close to it.

Taro wrote:

"Have run" is considered correct everywhere but the Letsrun message board.

Don't look now but you have ran into the Letsrun message board

pokydot wrote:

It does seem like some East Asian cultures value school more than university effort for whatever reason. After a certain age they just want to get a job and aren't interested in academics as much.

Japanese exchange students explained to me they compete to get into the elementary schools, and that's where their career track is determined for the most part. By the time they're in college the pressure's off and they cut loose and have fun.

bun and pony wrote:Name a single one at byu who were on the young end when they started. Name a single one at byu who finished their eligibility at 21 or 22, which is the norm for non-age-cheating schools.

Paul Cummings (RIP)

NCAA Champ wrote:

bun and pony wrote:Name a single one at byu who were on the young end when they started. Name a single one at byu who finished their eligibility at 21 or 22, which is the norm for non-age-cheating schools.

Paul Cummings (RIP)

Good one. Paul Cummings was too poor to pay for a mission so he actually graduated on time. Any in the past 40 years?

bun and pony wrote:

NCAA Champ wrote:

Paul Cummings (RIP)

Good one. Paul Cummings was too poor to pay for a mission so he actually graduated on time. Any in the past 40 years?

Presumably Rory Linkletter. Garnica hasn’t gone on a mission. Probably a number of others.

A more useful exercise would be to go season by season and give the ages of every runner at the NCAA championships. That should keep you busy for a little while.

That’s interesting about being 19 in Japanese high school. I noticed something different. For example, my daughter was there for kindergarten and the kids’ ages were in accordance with American kindergarten kids’. I went to college there for a year and all the girls who celebrated Coming Of Age Day (for girls turning 20 that calendar year) were either sophomores or juniors. Also, I don’t recall any of the guys in my freshman dorm being 20.

A lot of American runners originally want to play soccer or football but realize by like grade 9 or 10 they won't be too great at that then turn to running. In Japan they want to be a runner from a young age.

bun and pony wrote:

NCAA Champ wrote:

Paul Cummings (RIP)

Good one. Paul Cummings was too poor to pay for a mission so he actually graduated on time. Any in the past 40 years?

If you're too poor the LDS Church will pay for you to go.

Isn't Japan one of those countries famous for age cheats?