Base Training + Strides Question

You can. But 2-3x a week is all you really need. Also throw in some short short hill sprints and add some surges to some of your easy runs when feeling good.

This is a good recommendation.

I tend to do them on workout days, and the days before them so around 3-4 times a week.

2-3 times a week at a min year round

Yes. As long as the strides don't get in the way of your progress in your long run endurance development. Base running is all about slow running, with 50% of your energy coming from fat oxidation. But the fact that you speed things up in strides and surges won't suddenly kick you out of fat burning for 20 minutes, or something. Not the end of the world even if it did. But if you speed things up for too long, you'll be going more glycolytic, burning glycogen, and be more likely sensing the urge to discontinue the run before your planned distance or duration.

RyecorDone wrote:

Yes. As long as the strides don't get in the way of your progress in your long run endurance development. Base running is all about slow running, with 50% of your energy coming from fat oxidation. But the fact that you speed things up in strides and surges won't suddenly kick you out of fat burning for 20 minutes, or something. Not the end of the world even if it did. But if you speed things up for too long, you'll be going more glycolytic, burning glycogen, and be more likely sensing the urge to discontinue the run before your planned distance or duration.

If you are a distance runner training at a pace using 50% fat (80% heart rate for me and probably you too) and you are slow, then keep doing it, you need it.

Base running is not slow running, it's about balancing long runs, steady runs, a little bit of speed maintenance, and recovery

The slow runs are only a part of it all.

Lots of bad, disproven information and theories.

LSD runs need to be kept LSD. Throwing in strides/speed has the potential to create lactate.

The purpose of LSD is to build capillary beds. The presence of lactate prevents this from happening and will work against what you just did your LSD run for.

Keep speed days on speed days and long days on long days. Base doesn't just mean only slow miles, it means speed work + miles + technique.

Either double up or keep them separate. I.e. 10 - 15 mile run in AM, PM 1 mi W/U + 4-8 strides, 1 mi C/D

Swim Bike Run wrote:

Lots of bad, disproven information and theories.

LSD runs need to be kept LSD. Throwing in strides/speed has the potential to create lactate.

The purpose of LSD is to build capillary beds. The presence of lactate prevents this from happening and will work against what you just did your LSD run for.

Keep speed days on speed days and long days on long days. Base doesn't just mean only slow miles, it means speed work + miles + technique.

Either double up or keep them separate. I.e. 10 - 15 mile run in AM, PM 1 mi W/U + 4-8 strides, 1 mi C/D

No offense but wtf is going on in this thread? The only thing you said correctly is that base includes speed + miles. It doesn't mean slow as sh*t miles either unless you're intentionally balancing a mileage buildup + workouts.

OP, don't think twice about adding strides to your base. It's hardly speedwork unless you're one of those people that reads "stride" as "all-out flailing sprint with full rest at what I pretend to be mile pace but is actually my best Usain Bolt impression." Strides should be focusing on looking and feeling good at relaxed speed with enough rest to catch your breath. It's a drill, not a workout. Jog around, walk, stand, whatever. Do that 1-3 times a week. Do it before a run if you want. Or after. Doesn't matter at all.

No offense but learn to read.

Here is what I was referencing:

"base training is all about slow running" Wrong.

"surges won't suddenly kick you out of fat burning for 20 minutes or something" Um yes, learn about RER rates, plus its not fat burning we're concerned about but rather lactate.

"thrown in some short short hill sprints and add some surges to easy runs" Wrong. Again, minimize lactate production on LSD runs.

I never said it slow as S*it miles either. You're correct in that it is form and technique and not speed work. Just enough rest to catch your breath implies that ATP-PC ratios will not be restored, leading to increased lactate production during what it supposed to be an oxidative session.

We may be on roughly the same page but I think there are two definitions of "base" being presented here:

1) long slow miles, over hills maybe, no attention to pace, focus is on building mileage

2) tempo work, anaerobic threshold work, solid miles at aerobic threshold, light speed and hill work.

The issue is that 1 generally precedes and crosses over into 2 with younger athletes, athletes coming off an injury, or those building up to a new volume level over the previous year. So that leaves a lot of room for interpretation. And the reason I make that distinction is because you can't go straight to 2 or from 1 straight to interval work. In other words, no you don't want lactic sessions in the base phase, but you're not going to get there either by never coming close.

I think within definition 1, an athlete can and should do any of the following as long as they are unplanned and occur only when it feels right:

1) letting body dictate pace when athlete feels good as long as effort remains easy and controlled

2) throwing a few 15-30s surges onto the end of a run

3) finishing a run and doing a few relaxed strides (which shouldn't even be close to fast or long enough to stimulate phosphate utilization or require long amounts of rest)

But your suggestion that strides or hills needs an entirely different session after a 10 - 15 mile morning (which if you're doing that many on a non-long run day, you should probably be doubling anyway) is an idiosyncrasy, not a regimen that I've ever heard suggested in earnest.

Swim Bike Run wrote:

Lots of bad, disproven information and theories.

LSD runs need to be kept LSD. Throwing in strides/speed has the potential to create lactate.

The purpose of LSD is to build capillary beds. The presence of lactate prevents this from happening and will work against what you just did your LSD run for.

Keep speed days on speed days and long days on long days. Base doesn't just mean only slow miles, it means speed work + miles + technique.

Either double up or keep them separate. I.e. 10 - 15 mile run in AM, PM 1 mi W/U + 4-8 strides, 1 mi C/D

You are the one posting misinformation.

Capillary beds are built anyway, whatever training you do.

Lactate is essential for all running. Do you even know what Lactate is?

Seriously do you even know what Lactate is?

cramister wrote:

Base running is not slow running, it's about balancing long runs, steady runs, a little bit of speed maintenance, and recovery

The slow runs are only a part of it all.

I agree, somewhat. But it's all involving aerobic development, and that is "slow"... relatively speaking.

And anything that is run faster, but is still aerobic, is part of a solid base phase.

If you’re worried about not getting the results of the fat burning then do your run and afterwards do a few strides

Sorry to interject- how can I tell if my pace is aerobic? Most of my easy runs are 2/3 zone 2 snd 1/3 zone 3 on Strava. I’ve tested my max heart rate before, so I believe the percents of max are correct.

Running feels overall easy, but sometimes I have to sleep a lot after my longer runs. It does tire me.

Excuse the snippy reply earlier. And yes, we are on the same page, the big problem I see is athletes taking strides at the end of a session and turning strides into workouts to "make up" for the easy session. Therefore we often put them in a separate double or day.

Every other day

There are two issues that I have seen numerous times when the "traditional" Lydiard periodization is followed by reasonably experienced runners.

1) A runner completes their "big aerobic base" and then on some randomly appointed day they begin faster workouts. The runner gets hurt within 2-3 weeks and have to go back to the all-important "base phase" without ever building a proper foundation of muscular and metabolic support for faster, more race-specific running.

2) Same set-up as above, but the runner stagnates or races slower after the early season when "speed training" is introduced and the volume is suddenly lowered. The total stimuli is reduced, lactic training induces too much negative stress on the system, blood volume drops, and physical recovery/immune response becomes compromised.... Etc.

To avoid these common scenarios, coaches and athletes really need to rethink their periodization approach. Most research today indicates that periodization in the traditional sense is only "somewhat important". A better design is one that builds each training element progressively throughout the season, starting from a place of relatively low stress for a given athlete and gradually reaching a point where the athlete is completing "new" volumes, intensities, and bigger sessions to stimulate improvement from past seasons. This point will hopefully fall 2-3 weeks before a target race, not 2-3 months out from a goal event.

The purpose of strides is neuromuscular development, or the ability for your brain to efficiently fire your muscles at race speed.

For neuromuscular development, there is no need to do big, lactate inducing workouts.

Strides are not big lactate inducing workouts, unless, as stated above, you turn them into speed endurance sessions by running them too fast and taking too little rest.

I’ve not seen any convincing evidence that lactic acid impairs capillary development. In fact a quick pub med search suggests for “lactate and angiogenesis” suggests that there is a positive correlation between lactate and capillary bed development. My suspicion is that the dogma that lactate impairs capillary formation has been around for a long time without any real evidence to support it AND the reason that too much hard anaerobic work prevents the development of capillary beds is that the resulting muscular micro damage and resulting fatigue prevents athletes from doing the aerobic work necessary to maximize capillary development

None of the mumbo jumbo above should throw up a big red flag that says, “don’t do strides”. As a matter of fact, as long as it’s done at the right intensity, my guess is that you can do something for neuromuscular development every day, provided that it’s done in all amounts and doesn’t detract from your ability to do the aerobic development work

Do a YouTube search for John O’Malley and “every day our feet are moving fast”