Can somebody help me with these carbon shoes?

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For racing/performance, Pebax foam is more important than carbon fiber plates. Carbon fiber plates are overrated, somewhere between total gimmick and something that may only help in conjunction with the foam.

Training in carbon fiber plated shoes without Pebax is a good way to get your feet used to the feel while saving money, but these shoes won't perform as well in a race.

The foam helps more as the distance goes longer. For shorter races(5-10k), "traditional" flats are probably just as good and in fact a super lightweight pebax shoe without a carbon fiber plate weighing it down (Reebok floatride fast) would probably be my pick.

Vaporfly 4%, Next%, Alphafly, Adizero Adios pro, and Endorphin pro are all premium racing shoes with the high tech foams and carbon plates, or in the Adidas' case, carbon rods.

Zoom fly 3, tempo next%, adizero pro, endorphin speed, and all of the hoka options are the middle tier in terms of performance, being serviceable racers but best relegated to training if you really want to hit the fastest times.

They all lack a key component of the supershoe archetype, with the zoom fly 3, adizero pro, and the hoka options lacking superfoams and the tempo next% and endorphin speed lacking a proper carbon plate. That doesn't make them bad shoes, though.

Endorphin shift and the zoom gravity are both trainers through and through, with the gravity being a poor option in particular and the shift receiving mixed reviews.

Thanks guys.

It's so hard keeping these names straight!

How do you think a Zoom Fly 3 compares to a "regular flat" like maybe a zoom streak xc?

The Endorphin Speed is actually really good value for the price. Much better than the Hoka's, tempo next, ...

WinnytheBish wrote:

How do you think a Zoom Fly 3 compares to a "regular flat" like maybe a zoom streak xc?

Well, Zoom Fly 3 is about 100 grams heavier per shoe in size 9, and the foam is not pebax, so for racing a streak is much much better if your feet can handle the minimal cushioning. For training Zoom Fly is probably better, saves your legs more.

My humble opinion is to just get the next% though, costs a bit more than Fly but you get A LOT more in comparison. Save them first for a few races, then you can do all your workouts in them, then later faster long runs. I get around 1000km of training from a pair, so not wasted money.

Probably the same story for other brand's flagship models. Which are even cheaper than the next%.

What's the rationale of racing in them before even training in them?

jiggymeister wrote:

What's the rationale of racing in them before even training in them?

Because the foam deteriorates a bit in use, so at least wouldn't train much in them. And they're good to go out of the box - maybe for the marathon you might want to test them before. Different story for Alphafly though, those you absolutely need to test before to see if they cause problems. And they do for a lot of people.

Basically I've been looking at new flats and I have come across a few good deals on these carbon shoes. I may just go with the streak xc for now since I won't have any races to confirm a while anyway.

WinnytheBish wrote:

Basically I've been looking at new flats and I have come across a few good deals on these carbon shoes. I may just go with the streak xc for now since I won't have any races to confirm a while anyway.

any races to run for a while*

dantestruyve wrote:

The Endorphin Speed is actually really good value for the price. Much better than the Hoka's, tempo next, ...

I've heard great things about the endorphin.

what about Nike Fly Flyknit?

What about the Brooks Hyperion Elite and Hyperion Tempo? Does the Hyperion Tempo have good foam but not a plate?

Correct

The tempo has the good foam, but no plate. A very responsive light trainer.

The Hyperion elite 2 has a carbon plate and great foam. Pretty awesome long/fast shoe. The relatively straight last keeps it from feeling quite as fast as the next or endorphin pro, but for marathon type racing it’s great.

WinnytheBish wrote:

Lately there have been a few new lines of carbon plated shoes. Some are for racing, some are for tempos, some are for short distances, some are for long. Over the last day here are some of the names I've come across:

Nike zoom vaporfly next %

Nike zoom fly 3

Nike zoom alpha fly

Nike zoom vaporfly tempo

Nike gravity fly

You need the ZoomX foam and the carbon fiber plate. That's the key. I train in my Nike Pegasus Turbo 2, which feel like really good, regular shoes. I race in the Vaporfly Next % and the minute I put them on, the difference is stark. The bounce and responsiveness in those things is incredible. I love them. They're probably the best shoes I've ever run in. The only thing that's ever come close is the Vaporfly 4%'s which were incredible, but I haven't been able to find. They fit my foot slightly better than the Next%'s, but not by much. They're both incredible and feel incredibly fast.

As far as the Alphafly's, I logged on to by them within 10 seconds of their last release, and they were already sold out. Tf

It's just like iphones, every new version is supposedly the best option, when one year ago the old models were state of the art.

I loved my Zoom Fly Flyknit, just a training shoe. They were a more durable 4%, with heavier foam and a bit wider base.

They're sitting like ducks on Nike atm in the mango colorway, at least right now as I just checked the app