Could I get onto the University of Washington xc/tf team?

You are more competitive than most posters will admit, but UW is a very good DI team. The Powell's may give you a shot but it is not much fun to be on a team, but never really on the team. If running is important, go somewhere where you can at least compete for an XC top seven sport right away, but still have guys to work with and chase on the team.

There are good DII options where you are at, but you also could look at EWU, Gonzaga, and I think you could get WUE tuition at schools like Idaho and Idaho State and Montana and Montana State if you are set on Division I. You could maybe even garner a small athletics scholarship to some of these schools if you get some indoor times to back your development claims up.

This is sage advice and pretty close to my experience many years ago. Factors for me in my decision on a college were, am I admissible, will I be in a competitive program with a coach that will give me a chance to improve while earning my undergrad degree.

I couldn't have chosen better at that time for where I was athletically, academically, maturity, self reliance etc...

I chose a D2 regional school. My coach happened to be a national champion himself. I fit in with guys that were more talented than myself and it turned out to be a great training environment/group. Our distance crew were bonded and successful at the conference, regional and national level in all three seasons. Our conference was tough with D2 nat scorers everywhere. I had an Olympic Champion on my team. We got to compete against a lot of D1 teams and were competitive. I always wanted the opportunity to knock out as many D1 guys as I could. Fun beating guys from Villanova, Big 10, SEC, Big 12 etc... But that wasn't until my senior year where I finally developed to that level. There wasn't a D1 coach that would have let me walk on to their program and kept me around but I probably could have scored in any D1 conference meet by the time I graduated.

My point is that if you look for the academic program first, then an athletic program that would be a good fit for where you are and allow opportunities for growth you will probably go further and be enthusiastic about it.

Years later as a hs coach I had a local D3 coach ask my athletes if they wanted to be a walk-on at a D1 school that might not work out or the chance to be a national champion. From my personal experience, I thought that was a great question. I've had many athletes go both directions and experience both kinds of levels of success. Several NCAA scorers/champions/Olympic Trials qualifiers from D-1 to D-3.

Finding the right fit....But probably more important is what's in your heart. Do you really want to know how fast you can be and are you willing to do what it takes to get there before it's too late? If you don't have that you are wasting everybody's time including yours.

And forget the idea of a scholarship. How about you get into a good program and earn one at that point.

That's what most people do. Good for you if someone gives you something to get you to attend but it still needs to be a good fit. Naturally, I was happy for the one I received after one year. But I would have traded that bit of income to keep the experience I was having.

It obviously seems credible to say that a 4:20/9:20 type, if he ends up running those times, is not UW material. We're talking about a program that is and will routinely have multiple sub-4 athletes on the team. However, if you look at the recruits from the overall top xc team over the last four years, a team that does not rely on athletes in their mid-20s, NAU, their latest recruiting class has two guys over 4:20 in the 1600m and a couple guys with 9:12/9:17, all within range of the OP, if he reaches his goals this year.

Jack Scherer

3200-9:12

5k-14:45

Cael Grotenhuis

1600-4:23

3200-9:17

Hobbs Kessler

800-1:53

1600-4:08

3200-8:53

Tristian Merchant (3x Alaska XC champ)

1600-4:21

3200 8:59

Except that these guys will also improve this year. I predict these 4 will run 8:49, 8:50, 8:55, 8:59.

U didn't turn down DIII scholarships. Literally, everyone knows DIII schools cant offer athletic scholarships so idk what ur referring to

Secret scholarships at the local manufacturing plant for the kid who ran 2:05 and 4:45.

Probably some money disguised as something else if he's not BSing, happens more than you'd think

Nope. Compliance officer reports to the NCAA every penny that every athlete receives.

I'm talking about coaches pulling for merit money for the athlete that they might not have gotten if not for their ability, not unreported money or anything

Nope. Coaches can have no involvement in the administration of non-athletic scholstlrships unless they want to be suspended by the NCAA. And every penny is scrutinized so if an athlete gets a scholarship that they are not better qualified for than non-athletes, the school will be suspended.

It's not a matter of being more qualified, more like getting preference over a similarly or equally qualified candidate. And it's D3, nobody cares enough to enforce anything too hard.

Times are changin wrote:

Nope. Coaches can have no involvement in the administration of non-athletic scholstlrships unless they want to be suspended by the NCAA. And every penny is scrutinized so if an athlete gets a scholarship that they are not better qualified for than non-athletes, the school will be suspended.

When did you become the spokesperson for all activities of every d3 school in the NCAA? Most schools probably break NCAA regulations in some way or another--like it or not, that's how it is.

doubtful. even if you make the team as a walk on you will have to compete for your roster spot year in year out. Go somewhere you know you can compete for 4 years.

It was a long time ago, but I went to UW with slightly faster PRs than yours (2:02, 4:21, and probably could have run in the 9:20s but didn't run 3200m my senior year). If you choose to go this route, you will have to accept that the coach probably won't be designing workouts specifically for you so you have a high risk of turning into cannon fodder in workouts.

I did not improve at all at UW because I was sucked in by the temptation to keep up with the stars on regular run days. I did a lot of runs as a freshman with the all-Americans on the team and I could hang when dropping into the 5:20s around Green Lake. The problem is that you need to keep your easy days easy. Our coach (not the Powells) encouraged the idea of proving your toughness by keeping up with better people. I was totally overtrained and suffered in both my running and my grades.

If you can avoid the temptation of trying to run above your ability, you could get good at UW. You will not be competitive for the travel team for a couple years, even if everything works out but it can be fun.

If you're in the NW I would also recommend Portland. I regret not going to run for Connor when he was at North Idaho but my parents wouldn't let me go to a JUCO so it would never have been an option for me.

My friend accidentally emailed Coach Powell (when he was trying to reach out to WashU in St. Louis) and got this email:

Hello [Name Redacted],

Coach Powell forwarded me your email and I wanted to make sure we responded. Thank you for your interest in our program. Currently, our time standards fall within the ranges below. These times will vary between individuals, but the closer you get to these times, the better shot you have at earning a spot on our team.

800m - under 1:51

1500m - under 3:50

3000m - under 8:20

5000m - under 14:30

Please keep us updated with your progress! Good luck in your upcoming year.

Take care,

Chris Kwiatkowski

University of Washington

DIII sChOLaRsHIpS wrote:

U didn't turn down DIII scholarships. Literally, everyone knows DIII schools cant offer athletic scholarships so idk what ur referring to

Fair enough...any interest from Div III was related to my running.

I turned down Div II or weak Div I scholarships.

76chine wrote:

DIII sChOLaRsHIpS wrote:

U didn't turn down DIII scholarships. Literally, everyone knows DIII schools cant offer athletic scholarships so idk what ur referring to

Fair enough...any interest from Div III was related to my running.

I turned down Div II or weak Div I scholarships.

Of course, the school is listed as Div III that offered my friend and I, and he went.

Free ride for running. However the offer was extended, however the schooling was paid for, it was a free ride.

Sure you did. D2 and weak D1 schools are underfunded which is why they are slow. Your offers woukd have been about the same there as at a solid D1. What D3 school provided a totally free education to your friend? I have had many smart runners who were also very fast. They took the best offer they could get regardless of Division or tier. It almost always was on of out instate public schools. No D3 came close to full even for a 36 ACT.

Times are changin wrote:

Sure you did. D2 and weak D1 schools are underfunded which is why they are slow. Your offers woukd have been about the same there as at a solid D1. What D3 school provided a totally free education to your friend? I have had many smart runners who were also very fast. They took the best offer they could get regardless of Division or tier. It almost always was on of out instate public schools. No D3 came close to full even for a 36 ACT.

What I said happened. Not just to me and my friend. That's how the market worked.

As to your claim that such offers as I had would be about the same as at a solid D1 school, that is a very general remark, and is not true to my recollection, but maybe what you said would be true nowadays.

I went to one of the best Div 1 track programs. I would not have wasted my time at anything else. Just had bad luck that the great asst coach was fired shortly before I matriculated, and to add insult to injury the admin hired the least qualified applicant because he accepted the lowest offer. He did get fired after 2 years, but that coach had an adverse impact on the track athletes, not just me.

When I didn't go to Oregon as a walk-on after the 1st year of college was when I made my mistake. I repeatedly thought about going, and my HS coach had trained 1 year CC at Oregon with Dellinger and Bowerman when my coach was a grad student. He would have called Dellinger about me. Instead I worked full-time for a year, and that made it very difficult on myself to race fast after that, but I almost did succeed (I got injured.) Well, I got injured because I decided to run a half-marathon in the morning into school, as it was 13 miles from the house where I and some runners were renting rooms. In fact, a fellow runner who had a car offered to drop me off 5 miles from school and I declined, so there was no good reason for my long run. Moreover, it was road or cement all the way in, and that was not good. The final straw was that afternoon I ran 10 x 200m in 26+ (on the fly). The next day the lateral-collateral on my right leg swelled and I could hardly walk. A few days later the new technology of running electricity through the nerves was applied. The recovery took most of the summer, and the new coach wasn't interested...I could barely break 2 min in August, and although I would have been under 1:55 by December (so as to run 1:50-52 by April), I had become excess baggage and he had elite recruits (including from overseas) who were in their prime, much like I was when I left HS.

After college, middle distance races and opportunities to train with elite runners dry up unless one is international class.

That your friends took the best offer they could get is based on their values. My values were to go to one of the best programs, and those athletes without sports that year almost disappeared from coaches' recruiting radars. My HS coach had to call coaches, trying to convince them to come and watch me run in an open meet, when most of the coaches just went to the state meets and made offers there.

I can understand your friends' perspective if this was recent decision-making, because the costs of college as a percentage of the median or average income has increased so dramatically that it would be hard nowadays to turn down such an offer, and I probably would not.

I am not saying that the costs of IV league type schools has increased at the same rate as most of the schools, as their costs were always high as a percentage of median or average incomes.