Can I break 4:40 by the spring(sophomore$

Decades ago:

Frosh XC: 20:05 to 18:13

Frosh track: 4:52 to 4:37

Soph XC: 17:35

Soph track: 4:28

Junior XC: 16:16

Junior track: 9:38

Senior XC: 15:53

Senior track: 4:27/9:32

Still school records 25 yrs later....

Back then we didn't have places like Letsrun. We just ran. No second guessing. Just train harder and longer than you did before. Find out what others are doing and train harder than them.

Alan

GiocoGiacobbe wrote:

This xc season I ran a 17:07 5k on a pretty easy course, and before my season was cut short by a fluke injury, I ran some workouts like a 5 mile tempo at 5:48 pace, 800s around 2:35 pace, and low 3:50 1200 repeats (the intervals were on roads). I did this without a great summer training because I had some personal stuff and I got a bit depressed. I have solid basic speed. I usually run 3 workouts a week or 2 and a race m, with a long run 2 recovery days and a normal aerobic day around 45-65 minutes. What are my chances of breaking 4:40 if I don’t get injured?

I think if the speed is there you have a solid shot. The tempo looks pretty solid for a guy who didn’t have much of a base, so it looks like you’ll be there aerobically, but the mile is still around 20% anaerobic. If you stay consistent and run enough anaerobic and neuromuscular stuff youll be looking pretty good.

i think you get it if you can run a 55-56 400m

you wont know till you run. all you can do know is run hard pray to the running gods that you stay healthy.

If you ain't breaking 4:20 freshman year you're a lost cause.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Decades ago:

Frosh XC: 20:05 to 18:13

Frosh track: 4:52 to 4:37

Soph XC: 17:35

Soph track: 4:28

Junior XC: 16:16

Junior track: 9:38

Senior XC: 15:53

Senior track: 4:27/9:32

Still school records 25 yrs later....

Back then we didn't have places like Letsrun. We just ran. No second guessing. Just train harder and longer than you did before. Find out what others are doing and train harder than them.

Alan

More decades ago. When Runners World was actually a good resource for runners. If someone had a subscription you went to their house and read from a stack of back issues, From front to back it was all about competitive running. No yoga. No biking. No foolish drills. It was all running all the time. The only things that were advertised was running shoes, running spikes, running camps, and Gookinaid. They actually printed "How they train" articles from the logs of National and World class runners.

We had a few Running books in the library. We read and learned. We shared training information with each other and our competitors down the road. We experimented.

The only running gear to buy was shoes, shorts and t-shirts. We carried hand-held stopwatches on our runs. If that was too bothersome, then we looked at the clock before we left then looked at it when we got home. Then Casio made a digital watch which made things easier. Gloves were socks. Rain gear was trash bag with a hole cut in the bottom, or eventually a clear plastic jacket that we bought at a hardware store. Tights were long johns. For racing in the cold -- panty hose.

When I think about it, damn, we were lucky.

Cross Country times didn't matter. The courses were anywhere between 2.5 miles and 3miles. Most of the courses were challenging.

Soph XC team 4th at State

Soph track 9:43 2 mile (5th at State)

Junior XC injured, team 2nd at State

Junior track 4:40 mile, 9:17 two mile (3rd at State)

Senior XC team 1st at State

Senior track 4:16 mile 9:10 two mile (1st at State)

GiocoGiacobbe wrote:

This xc season I ran a 17:07 5k on a pretty easy course, and before my season was cut short by a fluke injury, I ran some workouts like a 5 mile tempo at 5:48 pace, 800s around 2:35 pace, and low 3:50 1200 repeats (the intervals were on roads). I did this without a great summer training because I had some personal stuff and I got a bit depressed. I have solid basic speed. I usually run 3 workouts a week or 2 and a race m, with a long run 2 recovery days and a normal aerobic day around 45-65 minutes. What are my chances of breaking 4:40 if I don’t get injured?

You shouldn't be thinking about "what time" can I run. You should be thinking about "who can I beat?" Running is a competitive sport. You be focused on your competition. Remember this: "While you are sleeping someone is training. Be someone."

Many days ago:

6 months ago - 6:16

4 months ago - 4:48

3 months ago - 16:43 5k

2 weeks ago - 4:39

Sham 69 wrote:

malmo wrote:

Junior XC injured, team 2nd at State

Junior track 4:40 mile, 9:17 two mile (3rd at State)

Senior XC team 1st at State

Senior track 4:16 mile 9:10 two mile (1st at State)

Why were your mile times so much different compared to your two milers?

Because a mile is shorter than a two mile.

The more I read your posts the more I like you ?

GiocoGiacobbe wrote:

This xc season I ran a 17:07 5k on a pretty easy course, and before my season was cut short by a fluke injury, I ran some workouts like a 5 mile tempo at 5:48 pace, 800s around 2:35 pace, and low 3:50 1200 repeats (the intervals were on roads). I did this without a great summer training because I had some personal stuff and I got a bit depressed. I have solid basic speed. I usually run 3 workouts a week or 2 and a race m, with a long run 2 recovery days and a normal aerobic day around 45-65 minutes. What are my chances of breaking 4:40 if I don’t get injured?

What does solid basic speed refer to?

What is your 200m? Your 400m?

How many 800s were in the workout? What was the recovery?

How many 1200s in the workout? What was the recovery?

5 miles at sub 6 pace shows you can train to run well. However, 16:30 for 3 miles is not as good as 5:48 pace for 5 miles. Perhaps you are a freshman or sophomore, when consistency at the different distances is still being developed.

If fully healed from the fluke injury, then that shouldn't be a problem.

I ran under 4:40 as a sophomore, and was around 10 min and 2:06.

Thou Shall Lisenth When Thy Malmo Speaketh!

Seriously tho....I was a little fat 8th Grader who decided I wanted to run....short legs flailing out to the sides, barrel chested and still 10-20lbs heavier than any "decent" runner of my height. 99% of you kids here have 1000x more god given talent that I ever had. All I had going for me was reckless abandon and determination to beat the dirty SOB in front of me. From DAY ONE I knew each and every red headed twig in front of me I wanted to BEAT.

Your summers and winters are YOURS. Make them such. Don't think about tomorrow. What can you do today? Then maintain that same level focus for days and weeks and months until said red headed twig is behind you.

I still remember my first red headed twig....his name was Beanblossom and I am not making that last name up.

What did you run last week? Last month? Why aren't you running farther today? Why aren't you running faster today?

Alan

I still remember after a couple of weeks of summer running (1-2mi basically all-out every couple of days and because I didn't know any better) we had our first organized long run. One of the guys who graduated the year before was there and our coach was a decent runner himself for being so old! (Funny because I'm his age now ahah, RIP Coach K)

We are running along and Coach mentions I can turn back before the bridge if I'm getting tired. Well I'm hammering along with them stride by stride hanging in there for 8 miles.

I can't give you pride or determination. You either want it or you don't. Put down the phone. Forget everything you've ever heard about 10% this or that or overtraining this or that. If you are training too hard your body will freaking force you to stop.

Go to the barn and back. Be first.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

What did you run last week? Last month? Why aren't you running farther today? Why aren't you running faster today? Alan

What I ran? OK

Senior year in HS: less than 10 minutes recovery between miles, 4:26, 4:26, 4:18. Spikes.

The first mile was faster than many runners in HS, and the last mile was faster than most runners ever ran in HS. And I was a half-miler who could run the mile.

I’ll do my best to explain sorry for not being clear

I’m not sure what my 200/400 times are but I know I have a pretty good kick and can easily keep up with some of the faster kids when doing strides.

8x800 with 2:20 rest standing

5x1200 with 2:15 rest standing and 30 seconds jogging

I think the the reason that tempo was faster was because the 5k I ran was a turkey trot and they cut the race into diffrent starting times, so I had to run the whole thing along, while avoiding people walking on the course. With somebody to run with I probably would’ve ran a lot faster.

I appreciate it. I’ve lost sight of that mentality a bit because in my freshman I had 2 other really fast kids in my grade who I could run with and compete, but one quit and one just doesn’t care and is getting beat by kids half as talented.

Too many intervals of such long length. Just the 8 x 800 and 5 x 1200 implies you are training for a good 5K, and probably can run 5:20 pace.

During CC we did 3 x (3 x 600m) my junior year, with 2 min recovery and 5 between sets. Each set was medium, fast, slow. If memory serves me, that was about 1:42, 1:36, 1:50.

Otherwise, the only other workout I remember that sounds like what you did was 5 x half with 10 minutes recovery between each, also during CC season (2:08 - 2:10 for me).

I think such workouts that you did tend to dull the competitive spirit. The body needs to feel speed, so that even the 9 x 600m that we did had fast parts to it.

Perhaps 2 x (8 x 200) is just the thing for you. Run it at mile pace, with 200 jog and 5 min between sets.

Runningart2004 wrote:

99% of you kids here have 1000x more god given talent that I ever had. All I had going for me was reckless abandon and determination to beat the dirty SOB in front of me. From DAY ONE I knew each and every red headed twig in front of me I wanted to BEAT.

Alan

I know you're trying to get hyped bro but I must spoil it. Gerry Lindgren used very similar talk. You two were both already talented, yall just didnt look the part yet.

I remember this twig talented freshman who was exceptional. He trained all four years hard, never got injured, but never got faster. His coaches and teammates are still confused on how he wasn't able to get any faster. Kind of an amusing story.