6 Month Lydiard/Aerobic Base Building Block for a Novice High School Runner

Arthur's base building phase had you doing comfortably paced, extended steady runs. You would not want that anaerobic burn that you mention. He recommended doing some fartlek in this phase but not hard fartlek. You'd do what he liked to call "aerobic fartlek," picking up the pace a wee bit until you start breathing harder and then reverting to your comfortable pace. It would be unstructured. He also would recommend some light striding, finding some hills to include on your runs but always keeping away from hard running and hard breathing.

You wouldn't have to do just slow and easy running but you would want to stay comfortable, Again, steer clear of hard breathing. If in doubt, go slower. If you find yourself struggling consistently to maintain pace, if you consistently need to shorten or skip runs you're probably running too hard. You want to emphasize distance here more than pace. Without knowing your background I can't tell you what that will actually look like. You might have seen schedules where he has people doing a 2 to 2 1/2 hour run, a couple 90 minute ones and the rest of 60-75 minute runs with a second easier run. But that's a bog order for nearly any 17 year old. When my kids were that age they were doing maybe 50-70 a week but had worked up to that over 2-3 years. Typically they had a 90-100 minute run, a 70-75 minute run, four in the 50-60 minute range and a day to do anything they wanted even if that was nothing.

Even that might be too much for a beginner, or it may not. This is where you need to know the athlete. I've seen schedules Arthur wrote where the long run was 60-70 minutes and the other runs alternated between 30 and 45 minutes. In their early days my kids responded very well to this kind of plan. But whatever you do, keep the pace anywhere from easy to comfortably fast with a big emphasis on "comfortably." There's nothing wrong with swimming, weights, whatever, as long as it does not have you running fewer miles because of them.

If you want to get into deeper discussions with more people who are knowledgeable, head over to Facebook and find the "Lydiard Training and Academy" group or just look for their website. At this stage I think you'll get more discussion at Facebook but it's not an either/or kind of thing.

Excellent summary of Lydiard's base training.

Many prefer Bowerman and Dellinger at Oregon, who made some changes, to include less weekly mileage. My HS coach trained one year with Oregon CC team with those two coaches.

Start with the intended race, and work backwards.

Intervals are just that: breaking up the intended race in smaller parts and running at race pace or faster to simulate the physical and mental efforts of the race, which includes struggling the last 1-2 intervals, just like in the latter part of a race.

To have the strength to do the interval workouts as intended, intermediate training involves distance runs at aerobic paces, and intervals at less than race pace (not intended to simulate the race).

To be able to handle the intermediate training, Lydiard and Bowerman and Dellinger used a base period of distance runs, some aerobic and some pushing the boundary between aerobic and anaerobic.

6 months of base is not necessary, and may prove counter-productive as you lose sight of your goal of racing fast.

When we are young we have good ability to build quickly muscles (good recovery, a lot stresses, plenty hormones)

When we are older we have good ability to build aerobic base, but have problem with recovery, building muscles (no stresses for body, no hormones).

Conclusion:

1) if you are young focus on muscles first, with sufficient base

2) as soon you become older you will accumulate aerobic runs and will focus more on base and recovery, while trying to keep your muscles in sufficient level.

For us, hobby joggers, picture is different... if you some how saved your natural muscles speed at middle age, started to build base, may be you have luck to be quite competitive among joggers like you after 3-5 years of balanced training. But to be an elite level chances are very low as elite has 7-10 years base in the belt, and still relatively young, but you do not have... time is passing, muscles not growing... and so on.

You and your idiot coach don't understand Lydiard.

To build a base you need to build the recovery into the training plan by doing training that you can recover from quickly. This helps you build day after day for many weeks or even months. This is true for young and old.

On your training thread JS has you doing 20x400 faster than your 3000m pace.

What makes you believe that is good training?

Logical, and I am an advocate of weight training to achieve optimal racing.

In the late twenties, the muscles seem to get denser, or in some other way become stronger. However, this comes at the expense of flexibility, so late 20s - 40s runners find their ability to handle mileage improves, without the drop off in performance. Concurrent with this gain is that top speed in sprints from turnover and spring in the step can slowly fade.

As to hobby joggers, the difference that I notice versus elite runners is stride length.

Stride length matters more than turnover, because turnover can be developed with mileage, but "spring in the stride" is to an extent developed with mileage, but not a lot more mileage.

Intervals are the key. from my perspective...but not all the new theories on how to run intervals, which I equate with seeking ways to improve without high quality interval workouts.

Cause he has a Vdot of 71?

And a 3km PB of 9:xx ?

+1

Vdot rules wrote:

Cause he has a Vdot of 71?

LOL Good one xD

I can't wait to see his sub 4:00 1500, or 14:4x 5000.

Listen to HRE.

I used Lydiard system 3 years & 8 months for your information, before to introduce any workout in my training, LOL ))

Vdot rules wrote:

what would Lydiard say? wrote:

You and your idiot coach don't understand Lydiard.

To build a base you need to build the recovery into the training plan by doing training that you can recover from quickly. This helps you build day after day for many weeks or even months. This is true for young and old.

On your training thread JS has you doing 20x400 faster than your 3000m pace.

What makes you believe that is good training?

Cause he has a Vdot of 71?

And a 3km PB of 9:xx ?

You don't understand Vdot.

Actually I think Canefis is a troll.

what would Lydiard say? wrote:

Vdot rules wrote:

Cause he has a Vdot of 71?

And a 3km PB of 9:xx ?

You don't understand Vdot.

Actually I think Canefis is a troll.

I think i do, that is why the ? ;-)

Canefis and Wizzy Whoppy, they make a great team :)

Run about an hour a day at a pace you can hold a conversation.

Once a week do either a Tempo or Fartlek that is faster but still comfortable. It should’nt feel like a race but it shouldn’t be a chit chat run either.

Good luck

Thank you so much for the reply!

Should I do 2-3 months base and 3 months/however long until I need to peak for a race at an intermediate training intensity?

Also, would the drop in pH from strength training hinder aerobic gains?

If you train correctly, you are always building your "base". Some phases will build it more than others.

If I were you, at that age, I might do 6 weeks of traditional base training. Milage would not be insane. Between 40-60 minutes per day, plus a long run. That would include most running at 75% max heart rate (whatever speed that gets you), a fartlek (10 second pickups with full easy recoveries) and some hill sprints (like 40m allout, walk down recovery), and a long run once per week. This will develop you from both ends of the spectrum. When you get fit your 75% max hr runs will get pretty quick, and you might opt to do some of your runs easier than that.

Then spend 6 weeks blending these together, with 2 staple workouts per week focusing on your goal race. 6 weeks is a solid block for you because you will not burn out, be less likely to get injured and you can perform well.

After that 12 weeks, run a race or TT and observe your improvements. Take the bits from the training period you like, carry them with you into the next 3 months. Ditch the bits you don't like. Play around with it.

For every 3 months of solid training your body deserves at least a week break from running. This will improve your training in the next block. If you wish to train 6 months straight, take at least 2 weeks off after.

This way you don't end up injured and asking for a cure. The cure is prevention, and enjoying your running!

Have fun

So which on is true? Is any of those versions true?

RunnerWithoutAnAerobicBase wrote:

Thank you so much for the reply!

Should I do 2-3 months base and 3 months/however long until I need to peak for a race at an intermediate training intensity?

1. About 2 months base is fine:

Keep it to 40-60 miles per week, whatever you can handle.

After a week or two of steady running, begin the weekly schedule of 2 days of faster runs, 2 days medium, 2 days slow.

Faster runs implies you wouldn't hold the pace if the run was 2-3 miles longer.

Medium implies you could hold the pace if the run was 2-3 miles longer, but that is about it.

Slow implies you could hold the pace until your body is really sore.

2. Then run about 2 months of intermediate: 1 fast run, 1 med interval day, 1 medium run, 1 easy interval day, 1 easy run, 1 very easy 45-60 min run.

fast interval day means you can't hold the pace for the target distance.

Example: 8 x 200m at a pace faster than 800m or faster than 1600m.

med interval day means you could hold the pace for 1 1/2 times the target distance.

slow interval day means you could hold the pace for 2-3 times the target distance

3. The last 2 months before your race, each week should have 1 fast intervals day and 1 med intervals day.

Usually the fast interval workout is on Saturday to simulate a race week, but could be Friday or whatever day of the week your races are usually on.

Fast intervals can be a TT.

If the fast interval was on Saturday, the med interval should be Wednesday, and fast run on Monday.

As to the pH levels, I never worried, and I don't have a definitive answer as to the impact.

I lifted weights and did the running, and got very strong. I could handle the aerobic distances even though I was a middle distance track athlete.

coleiolio wrote:

Listen to HRE.

I second this recommendation!