Long run pace for a 19 minute 5ker

My heart rate from my last 16 miler was 142-145 bpm at 8 pace.

Pace is to finish LR under control.

You don't need such a long run for your level of fitness, I would say 10-12 miles is enouth.

C3H603 wrote:

I've done a few 16 mile long runs, which I enjoy because I like running long and it's a cheap way to get in lots of miles.

I've been doing them in 7:30-8 pace when I get into a rhythm. I've tried dropping to 8:30 but I just can't maintain a rhythm at that pace and always end up speeding up.

I've been running for 8 months at 30-40 mpw. Previously wasn't taking running seriously and just doing 15 mpw.

Thanks

Your pace seems about right based on that 5k time, imo. Of course, the best test is how you feel for the next day or two after the long run. If you're not recovering well and are too sore or tired to do a decent workout after 48 hours then you should probably ease back on the LR pace,

One trick that I always found useful on LR was to just have the HR screen displaying on my watch, and try to block out pace entirely. Just run by HR. Maybe even set an alarm for the upper limit you want.

Your LR length as a percentage of weekly mileage is a little high though.

Best advice I ever got about pace for runs was from Arthur Lydiard. It was "enjoy yourself."

Sounds about like me a few years back. On ~38 mpw, I would do 25k runs fairly often and always around 7:30 pace...in fact all of my running was "in the 7s"...and it was good enough for 19 minute 5k, 39 flat 10k, and 1:26 half.

I suspect if you train a bit smarter, as in slower on some of those long days, no more than 20k long run (unless you up the volume), and then add in proper workouts, you can be quite a bit faster.

Most of the kids I have coached that run around 19 min will do most of their runs around 8 min per mile give or take 30 sec either way. 730 is definitely on the fast side for a 19 min runner. I would say generally start in the low 8s and then naturally speed up to the upper 7s to mid 7s.

C3H603 wrote:

I've done a few 16 mile long runs, which I enjoy because I like running long and it's a cheap way to get in lots of miles.

I've been doing them in 7:30-8 pace when I get into a rhythm. I've tried dropping to 8:30 but I just can't maintain a rhythm at that pace and always end up speeding up.

I've been running for 8 months at 30-40 mpw. Previously wasn't taking running seriously and just doing 15 mpw.

Thanks

You are right in the ball park and may be ready for a breakthrough. Nice job on the 16 milers! Sounds like a Marathoner in the making.

Just some anecdotal help, I’m also a 30-40mpw 19 min runner (masters, so I’m old). I do a weekly 10-14 miler anywhere from 7:20-7:50 pace and it always feels pretty good and comfortable. Even when I was faster, I always enjoyed running mid 7 minute pace... it’s just an enjoyable pace to run for many miles.

I only do one other workout per week. Would need to dial the long run back a bit to do more, but I enjoy it and respond well to it, so it’s fine.

If I’m tired and need to run slower than 8:00, then I just cut the run short and make it an easy day. Probably do that once a month. Like you, it feels much better when it’s not slugging along at recovery paces.

The girls I coached this year that were 19 minute runners were mid 7’s for a long run of 12 miles. I did not have them go further. A couple of them became 18 minute 5k runners and then I brought the pace down even a little more.

C3H603 wrote:

I've done a few 16 mile long runs, which I enjoy because I like running long and it's a cheap way to get in lots of miles.

...

I've been running for 8 months at 30-40 mpw.

why tf would you do ~33-50% of your weekly mileage in one (SLR) run?

Run more (evenly spread out through the week) mileage and you wont have to be a 19min 5K'er anymore. Run shorter SLR's and your legs might be fresh enough to do better sessions and you wont have to be a 19min 5K'er anymore.

Some people say don’t run more than 20% of your mileage. I would think 80-90 min is plenty of running. Pace maybe around 7:30-8:00 obviously pace depends of the week load and the distance you are training for. For races shorter than 10k it should easy rather than tough pace, for Half marathon and Marathon you should mixed them with tough running at the end of the run, for example 60 min relatively relaxed pace with the last 20 min at challenging pace like marathon effort or close to it, effort not pace.

Everyone is different and there’s many ways to train properly, you gotta find out what works best for you.

I started running late almost at 30 and in few couple years of serious training improved a lot, proper training matters gotta find a balance and not getting injured cuz that’s what happens when you really push your body to your limits. I would suggest find a coach that can help you, once you learn the magic of training and find your way of training you might do it on your own. All my PR’s were done while training with my coaches. Training by myself I was like 20 sec slower than my 5k PR.

Best of luck!!!

NotTrollingJustSaying wrote:

why tf would you do ~33-50% of your weekly mileage in one (SLR) run?

Is this directly to just someone training for 5ks, or a more general comment? Is 33% total mileage in a long run really that strange? I imagine many people around this pace range will be hitting 18-22 mile long runs at 50-60 miles per week

I do long runs at the same pace as my easy runs. I think your mileage is too low relative to the length of your long run. Try gradually increasing your weekly mileage. A long run should be no more than 25% of weekly mileage, at the very most. Which means for a 16 mile long run you should be running at least 64 mpw.

I agree with C3H603 running 16 miles is a lot of miles for someone running 30-40 miles and also not not a seasoned runner, you could afford running very long runs if you were a lot faster making a come back from a set back even with 40 mi per week but even 16 mi way too much. My longest runs ever were 16 but I was training for a HM and was doing 60-65 miles per week. I was also running sub 16 5k. So I think you can run by time or mileage but 80 min should be plenty, try to run more often, I think 5-6 days of running will take you there. I would recommend 6 runs max, have a day off, that worked great for me.

Listen to your body when training hard and feeling tendon pains, take a day or two off, run ez is better to miss few days even a week than missing 6 months. Tendonitis is such horrible injury, but this usually happens when you’re pushing hard, doing increases in mileage and running speed work.

Example here if you’re training to improve your 5k start increasing your mileage slowly I think with 40-50 miles is plenty running and then you should focus on training to improve your times. That kind of mileage can easily be enough to run sub 17.

I was able to run even sub 16 with 45-50 mile weeks and 11-12 mi long runs. My fastest times were achieved while training for 1 mile race and was doing around 45 mi total, so my focus was on speed endurance and I did well, as I said many ways to train this might not work for you, but just giving you an idea. I had a friend that he would just do Mile repeats for endurance and boy he was a monster, but he was much older and ran his entire life since HS, he would run like 80-90 miles per week and was always few several sec per mi faster than me in the 5k He was in his early 50’s I was in my early mid 30’s, very different training with similar results.

I’m surprised you haven’t broken 19 for 5k yet.

I hate to say it, but you sound like you could use some of the magic 400s a la JS.

NotTrollingJustSaying wrote:

C3H603 wrote:

I've done a few 16 mile long runs, which I enjoy because I like running long and it's a cheap way to get in lots of miles.

...

I've been running for 8 months at 30-40 mpw.

why tf would you do ~33-50% of your weekly mileage in one (SLR) run?

Run more (evenly spread out through the week) mileage and you wont have to be a 19min 5K'er anymore. Run shorter SLR's and your legs might be fresh enough to do better sessions and you wont have to be a 19min 5K'er anymore.

I have to agree with this. It sounds like your long run pace is in the right range for a long steady run. If you wanted to add a workout into your long run to spice things up, then you could run some miles between half marathon pace and marathon pace, which would be 6:45-7:05 for a 19 minute 5k runner. If your target race is a half marathon or marathon, then you should start doing something like this at some point.

However, my main observation about you post is: 16 miles is too long for someone running 40 mpw. You could do this for a novelty marathon (that is, you want to move from the starting line to the finish line of a marathon one time to check it off of the bucket list). There is no logic that would tell you to run a 16 mile long run and 40 mpw to train for a 5k. That's inefficient and wasteful: you could be doing much better and smarter training and improving more if your long run was only about 10 miles. The 6 extra miles on the long run won't give you the same benefit as they would if they were elsewhere in your weekly running.

He’s been running for less than a year. It takes time to improve. Also not everyone trains like a mad person. There are many variables like age, work, family, lifestyle before running, did or did not do sports at young age, body type, etc.

You can’t just judge by mileage.

For the past 6 years I have done very little running, past few years just one or two runs per week 4-5 miles but I can still run much faster than most weekend warriors, why? Because I was a faster runner and with jut some weeks of intervals I can run decent times even with no base, Wednesday ran solo mile in 5:16, yesterday solo 5k 18:11.

I’m 41 and I started running at almost 30, I stopped training at 34.

You can’t compare Apples with oranges.

Keep running my friend you will improve with time and training.

A lot of good advice in this thread, especially regarding length of long run vs. balance of training week. But as far as pace of long run is concerned, no better advice than this:

HRE wrote:

Best advice I ever got about pace for runs was from Arthur Lydiard. It was "enjoy yourself."

This sounds right...

I am slightly slower (20:30-21:00 5k) and I found out that by slowing down for some of my runs I was able to increase speedwork and also build mileage because I knew I didn't have to kill myself at 7:35-7:40 for each tempo/standard run. Dropped my base runs to 8:20-8:40 and upped volume, then went to town with speedwork. My legs felt better.

Ran my 3:24 off of 45-50 mpw average over 18 weeks, and then also peaked at 61 mpw on my highest week.