If this quote from the new British athletics head coach Christian Malcolm is true, why do we even need coaches?

Donald Thomas (Bahamas) in the high jump. Seventh jump of his life went 7'3". Two months later was fourth at the Commonwealth Games. NCAA indoor champ then 2007 world champ beating Stefan Holm for gold. 18 months from first jump to world champ with only eight of those months training seriously.

...and another Ivy League concept.

Geepers rojo, ho wthe heck did you get in there and what did you do there.

I know I played way too much cards in the Union (cafeteria) when I was at undergrad...but still.

b4987326 wrote:

Donald Thomas (Bahamas) in the high jump. Seventh jump of his life went 7'3". Two months later was fourth at the Commonwealth Games. NCAA indoor champ then 2007 world champ beating Stefan Holm for gold. 18 months from first jump to world champ with only eight of those months training seriously.

That's the first name that came to my mind.

I am Sam wrote:

...and another Ivy League concept.

Geepers rojo, ho wthe heck did you get in there and what did you do there.

I know I played way too much cards in the Union (cafeteria) when I was at undergrad...but still.

Was rojo ever part of a team that qualified to NCAAs?

I think he's talking about say, a soccer player with mad physical talent who could transition to an event like the long jump and with a little coaching become a medal contender. Doesn't really happen because football pays better, but there's lots of cases of track athletes trying to play other sports.

rojo wrote:

Keyword - Random wrote:

Aren't you a former coach? You tell us.

Obviously you would still need a coach. You need someone generally keep the mood up, give them workouts, etc. But I put it up because i found it to be interesting. It's very rare to see coaches admit how much of it is about working with Grade A talent.

Now. I'm certain there isn't a human being with the talent in distance running to go from zero to Olympic champ that quickly. Would it be possible in some other event like the 100? I have no clue.

Daniel Komen, perhaps.

Delano Meriwether

sub 4 minute miler on every street corner...

Lol

Of course you NEED a coach - to "keep the mood up" and hand out workouts.

So... You don't need a coach.

I am curious, what recent star elite distance runner has not had a coach. It's the self-coached athletes that think they don't need a coach that really do need one. Why do all of the best US and Olympic runners around the world have coaching, if it is so easy to self-coach?

eurodonkey wrote:

YMMV wrote:

The nutbag Cerutty showed this long ago with Elliot.

Elliott did not take up running under Cerutty. He excelled in just about all sports at high school. got a great base rowing AND running at once, then became the obvious up and coming talent in Perth. Cerutty sought him out because he spotted the potential

Yes, but Cerutty was nuts with his extreme training methods...

redfdsdsfsdf wrote:

sub 4 minute miler on every street corner...

Yes, but they have done a lot of sprinting...

...getting away from the cops and the rival gangstas.

So they already have a good fitness base and can race under pressure.

In other sports, it hasn’t worked so well for professional athletes to crossover. Think MJ to Baseball and Golf.

rojo wrote:

The super well like 41-year old Malcolm made a bunch of media interviews as he just started his new gig as head coach for UK Athletics.

One quote from him at the bottomof an article in The Guardian really caught my attention.

Sean Ingle wrote:

“And athletics is such a unique sport. You could have somebody right now, who’s never done the sport before, who could actually be a medallist in Tokyo in some events. That’s the nature of our sport, right? That’s the beauty of it. That’s what I love about it.”

Dicus:

I find that quote to be very interesting, particularly from a coach. I mean we have all these article touting his 12-year plan but then we have the man himself admitting someone who doesn't even do track might be able to win an medal in Tokyo if they are talented enough.

Yes, you'd still need a coach to get them to peak right and keep them motivated. But it's a pretty interesting quote. I think it's largely correct but interesting nonetheless.

]

David Epstein referenced a story in his Sports Gene book about a European high jumper, Stefan Holm, who had pretty much trained for the event his whole life, got beat out by a high jumper from the Bahamas, Donald Thomas, who didn't start high jumping until about 8 months before the 2007 World Championships.

Thomas got a little bit of coaching to help him learn how to high jump but his technique was all over the place and he wasn't a fan of high jumping shoes...wasn't even a fan of practice as he'd be found sneaking off to play basketball.

The big takeaway was how years of jumping in basketball (specifically the dunking skills he was fond of showing off) had built him into a natural high jumper...he just didn't have the discipline of the back arch and over-the-bar form that others in the sport had. He may not have done the sport of *high jumping* in the past, but he was definitely well versed in jumping high.

rojo wrote:

The super well like 41-year old Malcolm made a bunch of media interviews as he just started his new gig as head coach for UK Athletics.

One quote from him at the bottomof an article in The Guardian really caught my attention.

Sean Ingle wrote:

“And athletics is such a unique sport. You could have somebody right now, who’s never done the sport before, who could actually be a medallist in Tokyo in some events. That’s the nature of our sport, right? That’s the beauty of it. That’s what I love about it.”

Dicus:

I find that quote to be very interesting, particularly from a coach. I mean we have all these article touting his 12-year plan but then we have the man himself admitting someone who doesn't even do track might be able to win an medal in Tokyo if they are talented enough.

Yes, you'd still need a coach to get them to peak right and keep them motivated. But it's a pretty interesting quote. I think it's largely correct but interesting nonetheless.

]

I really don't get your point - especially the coaching part. A few things:

- While someone going from nowhere to Olympic contender in a short period of time could certainly be interesting - especially perhaps to more casual fans - it could also be damning, as in, "That sport is so shallow that someone can actually do that." There are no equivalents to this in the "big sports" - football of either kind, basketball, etc.

- About the coaching link, a good coach would likely be MORE (and probably MUCH more) important in this case, as the athlete would probably have little or not background in time-tested training standards. (it's the 35-year old distance runner who's been running at a high level since 15 that one can start to wonder about the need for a coach....).

- Perhaps most notable, especially since a guy who lives and breathes T&F wrote it, how about a fact check for us casual fans? Are there any examples of this, in T&F? None jump to mind. The sport's been around a long time. If there were no examples, it would render his assertion bogus, and thus infinitely less interesting.

rojo wrote:

Keyword - Random wrote:

Aren't you a former coach? You tell us.

Obviously you would still need a coach. You need someone generally keep the mood up, give them workouts, etc. But I put it up because i found it to be interesting. It's very rare to see coaches admit how much of it is about working with Grade A talent.

Now. I'm certain there isn't a human being with the talent in distance running to go from zero to Olympic champ that quickly. Would it be possible in some other event like the 100? I have no clue.

I medalled at the trials, had an A qualifier, didn't have a coach.

You have to be mentally tough and driven

rojo wrote:

Keyword - Random wrote:

Aren't you a former coach? You tell us.

Obviously you would still need a coach. You need someone generally keep the mood up, give them workouts, etc. But I put it up because i found it to be interesting. It's very rare to see coaches admit how much of it is about working with Grade A talent.

Now. I'm certain there isn't a human being with the talent in distance running to go from zero to Olympic champ that quickly. Would it be possible in some other event like the 100? I have no clue.

I would say he is referring to field events. But that's just me.

He's wrong. I've seen more than a few guys come over from other sports and think they are fast but then get smoked by track's best. Only guys who cross over successfully, like Herschel Walker (youngsters say who he?) actually ran track in high school and college.

YMMV wrote:

The nutbag Cerutty showed this long ago with Elliot.

Also: see Dennis Kimetto, Lagat and Abdi, among others. A donkey could coach these guys to medals.

Yeah, but the real secret is epo.