(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11/22/2020

Stone - Congrats on the second-overall! Figure sub-17:30, based on the winner's recent racing? That's very impressive (given your recent step-back and 180 lbs, ha!), and the course sounds heavenly. November cross-country -- is there anything sweeter? Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

That is, sub-17:30 equivalent, I meant to write

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Had a blast running my first live race of the year this morning. XC-style 5K held at a winery. Lots of turns, undulation, grass, sand, woods, leaves, gravel, and most of all, slop. Couldn’t help but think of our friend, pewow, and how much he would have enjoyed this one.

19:21, second overall. Held a pretty even effort around 6:00/mile for most of it. Time and placing were incidental for this one. The winning time was 19:05 and he recently raced a 17:1x and 57:5x.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

Excellent - congratulations! It had to feel awesome to be back out there.

Happy thanksgiving, all!

Stone - Sounds like fun. Did you have spikes? My one post-college XC race was a muddy November 8k and for some reason I didn’t have proper spikes. Ran 2:30 slower than I did in a road Turkey Trot a few days later.

Stone is Back Baby!!!

RRR is alone on Thanksgiving so I lifted all the weights. Now I’m gonna eat alll the food and drink some high gravity IPAs.

Hope everyone is having a safe and healthy Thanksgiving

Nice work, Coach Stone. Sounds like a double whammy to me—a good race AND on Thanksgiving. Enjoy being back in it.

I will pull a Grandpa Curly and ask...So, what are we thankful for this year?

As for me, I am glad to be over the injury hump and to have run a good marathon...and to have learned something from it. The dream lives on...

Allen1959 wrote:

Stone - Congrats on the second-overall! Figure sub-17:30, based on the winner's recent racing? That's very impressive (given your recent step-back and 180 lbs, ha!), and the course sounds heavenly. November cross-country -- is there anything sweeter? Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

The course was absolutely heavenly. Brought me back to my high school racing days. Weather was unseasonably warm for November, about 62F at the gun, brought on by the storms we had overnight that left the course a slopfest.

Sub 6:00 - no XC spikes, but they would have been really handy today, especially the last sandy, muddy mile. Raced in my Adios, just to have a lighter shoe, although honestly I could have been wearing my Hoka Bondis and probably have run the same time. Just slow going without spikes.

Allen - I ran a 3 x 1 mile workout about 3 weeks back off 4:00 recovery jogs averaging 5:46. I am probably around 17:45-18:00 shape right now tapered on a fast road course. But it’s all good. Just glad to be back it, like darkwave said, and moving in the right direction.

Happy Thanksgiving all! Hope you all enjoyed your Turkey Trots.

Beastly effort, Stone!

rucker and OR,

I totally agree with you guys. I do feel like the comfortable daily pace that I can sustain for a long distance seems to improve the most by simply repeating the 80-90 minute run day in and day out as the totality of generally "bread and butter" training. Lately, I've been stunned when I stop the run and see what my average pace for the run was (most of the time). It seems wayy faster than it felt. Almost like my watch is broke or something but I'm pretty sure it can tell time and I know the distances are correct. Something is working.

Rucker, I do agree with you and think my key to injury prevention right now might be to simply cap the time around 90 or 95 minutes.

Zm swift, those are some MONSTER treadmill workouts. My God. I noticed that my treadmill days tend to be a bit slower than my outside days. Although I have done some workouts equivalent to outdoor paces on the treadmill. I think it's a motivation thing. When I'm outside, I might have a tendency to spontaneously "push" it a little here and there where on the treadmill, you can't really do that without pushing a button first. I did notice that my HR on the treadmill is nearly identical to my HR outside at the same pace.

Also, thanks for clarifying the feeling. I was wondering if "Hard" simply meant fast and that turns out to be the case. It does sound like you are pushing it more than I am but not by much (I'm talking effort, not pace... you're pace is WAYYY faster at equivalent efforts). It would make sense that you can give a greater daily effort than me since you've adapted to this kind of training and I have yet to do so.

Loving this discussion!

Nice racing, Stone. Always fun to get in a little cross-country!

Big congrats to HHW on the successful marathon TT. (The 2 AM start in itself boggles my mind.)

Enjoying the steady-running conversation.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

Managed a 19:10 today, wife was a few seconds behind most the race so that was good motivation. Quads were real sore but felt alright!

RunnerSam wrote:

Managed a 19:10 today, wife was a few seconds behind most the race so that was good motivation. Quads were real sore but felt alright!

Great job, my friend RS! So good to see that people are out there racing, not just nutty hhw out by himself in the dark.

Allen - Just started sipping some apothic rose...meal is just beginning...

outsiderunner wrote:Just started sipping some apothic rose...meal is just beginning...

OR, once again you're way ahead of me. Bird just came out of the oven. Gravy being made. Potatoes about to be mashed. Chardonnay already being consumed, of course. Just the two of us here tonight. Zoom or somesuch with wife's kids, granddaughter, ex-husband and spouses earlier today. Tomorrow, I'm hooking up with one of my son's for an 8-miler. Looks like only two runs this week. Better than one!

Be well. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all. Oh, and a Pilgrims reference -- maybe I mentioned already, but this past Saturday was the 400th anniversary of the signing of the Mayflower Compact. My 8th GG was a signee (Dr Rev Samuel Fuller). Ha!

Wow, a toast to the good Rev Fuller! Enjoy your run tomorrow. I will run in the AM and then head off to work.

runrincerepeat wrote:

Stone is Back Baby!!!

RRR is alone on Thanksgiving so I lifted all the weights. Now I’m gonna eat alll the food and drink some high gravity IPAs.

Hope everyone is having a safe and healthy Thanksgiving

Yum, love me some heavy IPAs!

Check in on the thread after over a month and stone is calling me out. Yes, sounds like I would have loved that XC race. If I'm not on a track I want the most fun course possible.

I'm heading out soon for a virtual race that I'm actually excited about. It's a checkpoint race where you bike to different parks then run inside the park to the checkpoint. No GPS navigation allowed, just a printed map. 4 hour time limit but my goal is to finish in 3 hours.

Had two days of rain and snow earlier this week so might be some sloppy (aka fun) trails.

Interesting conversations over the last couple days. My undergrad coach was huge on the Lydiard system and I progressed well with that when I ran under him. I think for the majority of college I was run pretty fast during every run. First couple miles back at home had about a 3 mile uphill so I'd be at like 6:45/6:50 working and then quickly progress to 6:00. I don't think I ran over 7:00 a mile very much during those years. Unfortunately for me it was just not sustainable. It was a lot of fun but I couldn't hold it very long.

Since switching over to the marathon I've slowed things down a ton. For the first time I have runs that are slower than 7:30s pretty regularly for recovery. I disagree about the 6.5 miles being a waste of time. Time on feet and getting the gunk out of your legs before a long run/long run workout is great. I still absolutely hate running slower on my non-workout days but I know they are beneficial. Ultimately if I want to make that progression to 2:20 or under I'm going to have to be able to get through multiple blocks without injury.

Ran an impromptu Turkey Trot with friends yesterday. 16:16 on a gradual hilly 800 meter block. Wore the next% and I was super hesitant going around curves with them especially after the rain we got the evening before. Ran solo and tried to keep it consistent. Wasn't pretty (5:10, 5:13, 5:17). Not happy about it but it was just for fun. Definitely in better shape than this based on the 9:46 I ran a couple weeks ago.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 45, 5’6”

PRs: 21:20 (2016, 2019), 1:34:28 (2020), 3:28:24 (2019)

2020 TTs: 21:29, 1:34:54, 3:21:37

Next race: Local 5k (11/28)

M - 4.2 @ 9:25

T - 6 @ 8:59

W - 8.3 @ 8:23. 4 easy, 4 light progression (8:03–>7:30)

Th - Rest

F - 6 @ 9:17

Sa - 10. Including 2 x (.5 mile each at 7:01 / 6:52 / 6:29) with .25 mile recovery jogs. Followed by 5 x (:30 fast, :30 jog)

Su - 5.1 @ 9:25

Weekly Total: 40.6 miles

YTD Miles: 2,321 miles

Mostly recovery miles this week after last weekend’s half marathon, although we did incorporate a transition workout on Saturday to prepare her for a 5K next weekend.

New official 5k PR. Small, fast road race this morning and caught perfect conditions (49F, partly sunny, windless).

3.12 miles (21:06) 6:45/mile. Splits were almost perfect: 6:49 / 6:48 / 6:39 / 6:46 for the last bit. She swears she is never racing another 5K again, haha. But something tells me those six seconds aren’t going to sit well with her.

She absolutely hates the intensity of 5ks, she has always loved the challenge of the marathon. But I have a feeling she’ll give it another go when the time comes.

Congrats to Mrs Stone!! That's awesome! I bet she is feeling like a million bucks after that. As much as she hates the 5K pain I bet she will absolutely get sub 21 in the future.

Stone - Tell Mrs Stone that I understand her point of view completely...and such is why she deserves a special pat on the back for this one. Really like what you are doing with your training, Stone. The “all long” approach, even done slowly, will bring nice rewards. Enjoy it.