JENNA MF HUTCHINS - Runs 15:58 - 1st US HS Girl To Break 16:00 in XC!!

The female athletes these days are on an insane level. It seems you think you have found one of the best athletes ever and then next year another emerges. I know some worry about burnout and sure it would be great to see them have a chance to progress to the Olympic level, but at the same time I also think this gave them a great chance at success even if this does not always translate to the next stage. For her sake I of course hope she has many more years of success, but she should be proud that her hard work especially during a difficult time in history, has brought her to an unmatched level. Would be amazing to see a race of Prime Cain, Touhy and her along with others line up :).

astro wrote:

So no answer. I guess I'm right. Cool.

I predicted Hutchin's (and Grijalva and Hunter dead-on) all within TWO-TENTHS OF A PERCENT.

THREE FOR THREE.

You predicted zilch, zero nada, which is what your belly-aching is worth. Good bye little boy, you are but a residue on the bottom of my shoe.

Well done on your predictions. What you don't have is a good argument, I asked you a couple of very simple questions and you cannot answer. Because you already know what the answer is. No harm admitting it.

Meylan posted a speed rating article on the track 5k. Good stuff.

172 for Hutchins.

http://www.tullyrunners.com/XC2020/Hutchins5KRating.htm

They don't put track surface tension, barometer readings, hair length, last eaten meal, etc on results. They just put place, name, and time.

Let me guess astro, you think this election was rigged and Biden didn't really win? You seem to fit right in with that camp.

Betting your college teammates love hearing you still claim that you are the rightful 5k record holder even though you are only 5th officially. You ran your race on a crappy track in a tactical race in bad weather. When you factor everything in, you are actually faster than the 4 guys ahead of you. Wait, they already walked away and didn't hear anything you said after, "hello".

I don't know. Now we are applying speed ratings to track races.

Interesting. On a 200m indoor track the turns are tighter and more frequent. It takes 25 laps to run 5000m, vs. 12.5 on a 400 meter track. 400 meter tracks also have longer straights and more gradual turns. This is why outdoor times are generally faster. Even with a bank it wont overcome the time loss and extra energy expenditure. And having to turn in the 2nd lane repeatedly certainly would not help.

So we have pacer vs no pacer, 400 meter vs 200 meters, mondo surface vs beynon surface, track interference vs none, 25 laps vs 12.5.

Records are times. However the conditions and circumstances leading to those records are all factors in trying to evaluate relative performances in those varying settings.

astro wrote:

Interesting. On a 200m indoor track the turns are tighter and more frequent. It takes 25 laps to run 5000m, vs. 12.5 on a 400 meter track. 400 meter tracks also have longer straights and more gradual turns. This is why outdoor times are generally faster. Even with a bank it wont overcome the time loss and extra energy expenditure. And having to turn in the 2nd lane repeatedly certainly would not help.

So we have pacer vs no pacer, 400 meter vs 200 meters, mondo surface vs beynon surface, track interference vs none, 25 laps vs 12.5.

Records are times. However the conditions and circumstances leading to those records are all factors in trying to evaluate relative performances in those varying settings.

On the FL podcast todayJenna mentioned the pacer helped her stay very relaxed thru the first mile, and the pacer lights kept her focus on staying on pace. To her credit, she ran 15:34.

So basically, you find excuses until you come up with a scenario where in your mind, you’re really the winner.

It’s ironic that your obsession with Tuohy is now causing more people not to like her. When they think

of her, they’ll think of her Uncle Rico-like stalker.

Woah!!!! Pacer lights? Well there goes the ballgame.

Nope. Just like the sport and this is the only level where results are real.

I think it works provisionally. I would say Hutchins is running comparable to Tuohy in her sophomore year, and the SRs do line up. But as I have always point out, even on a track there are differences in venue, track size and surface, race conditions, whether a pacer and pacing lights are used.

I don't understand what is still to discuss:

1. The John Hunt CC course is faster than most CC courses, and was designed that way. The defenders of the course can have the runners next year start at this year's finish and finish at this year's start.

2. Jenna Hutchins' national record of 15:34 was one of the best HS races I've ever seen (I watched the live feed).

3. Running with a pacer for a mile and pacing lights made her performance seem just a bit off to those who want to see it in a crowded field.

4. However, I don't share the sentiment that the pacer or pacing lights diminished what she did. I believe the pacer and the lights are not sufficient to change that she set a record almost solo in what amounts to an incredible TT. For that reason, I can't imagine there exists a women's CC or T&F college coach who wasn't blown away by Jenna's record under those circumstances, and they are the people with the scholarships to offer.

I see it as just helping give perspective on the prior XC races, not the tracks races. I became interested in what sped rating you give a track 5k when I read the article about 22 Japanese HS’ers running sub 14. Basically, the SR math suggests how many US HS’ers in the past have been fit enough to perhaps have run sub 14, had they ever tried. Which most never do.

I agree about the pacer. This meet was very low key. I think she would run faster in a crowded indoor venue. And this was her first real shot. Run it 2 or 3 more times going out faster each time, and who knows?

astro wrote:

Woah!!!! Pacer lights? Well there goes the ballgame.

Agreed, that's what makes it an unlevel playing field. She's using something that 99.9% of high school athletes don't have access to. Same as the cheater shoes.

Vaporflys have entered the chat?

astro wrote:

Vaporflys have entered the chat?

more akin to the pre-release shoes since the technology is not available to the general public