Ken Goe: A Salazar Shill to the End

I agree, but to play devil's advocate, one could argue that Salazar received draconian punishments for minor, inadvertent violations because of concern about other things he was doing, either things that weren't illegal but bothered people, or things that were illegal but for which there was insufficient evidence. For instance, I'd be surprised if Rupp didn't use Androgel at some point or prednisone in competition.

800 dude wrote:

I agree, but to play devil's advocate, one could argue that Salazar received draconian punishments for minor, inadvertent violations because of concern about other things he was doing, either things that weren't illegal but bothered people, or things that were illegal but for which there was insufficient evidence. For instance, I'd be surprised if Rupp didn't use Androgel at some point or prednisone in competition.

Agreed, which is why I don't have a problem with Salazar's draconian punishment -- because there were clearly worse things going on in NOP than just L-carnitine infusions (namely Androgel abuse). Tygart and USADA had no choice but to charge Salazar with violations for which there was strong evidentiary support. If you caught Tygart in an honest, unfiltered moment, I'm sure he'd tell you that what USADA charged Salazar with was only the tip of the iceberg.

That said, I take issue with your characterization of Salazar's minor violations as "inadvertent." There was nothing inadvertent about them, particularly the testosterone experiment but also the L-carnitine infusions. Salazar instructing NOP athletes to lie about the nature of the infusions demonstrates as much.

I guess over at Nike the spirit of the sports means cheating whenever feasible.

The bottom line here is Salazar's excuses are much in line w/ Armstrong's, aren't they?

Just hire the right MD for the job, insist the health issue requires a prescription.

Rely on financial resources to pull it off and marketing to justify.

When caught, insist it's gray subjective perspective which gives the green light.

And after all, these are American heroes.

"

Nice Guys" lie, cheat and commit crimes.

"If you caught Tygart in an honest, unfiltered moment, I'm sure he'd tell you that what USADA charged Salazar with was only the tip of the iceberg."

I take issue with this statement. TOTAL conjecture on your part. You use the words "honest" and I'm sure" . Really!?

Correct. There is nothing inadvertent with Al Salazar. He is a calculating, conniving evil genius. He belongs in the same category as "Pharma bro" Martin Shkreli .

Correction: Goe is a Nike lapdog, probably takes $100 handshakes all the time to puff a

Correction: Goe is a Nike lapdog, probably takes $100 handshakes all the time to puff and defend anyone in the Swoosh cult.

anacondarunner wrote:Salazar's draconian punishment

Actually, he received the minimum punishment for his anti-doping rule violations as allowed by the code, which is the opposite of "draconian".

I am still hoping that CAS disagrees with such a small punishment.

He also got lucky that - in line with the code - the 4-year ban for testo, the 4-year ban for the forbidden method and the 2-year ban for tampering weren't treated separately, resulting in a 10-year ban.

A strange rule, btw. Imagine committing three different crimes with such jail terms of 2x 4 years and 1x 2 years, and then only serving 4 years...

Last but not least: the only two Americans so brutally crashing through the generous ABP thresholds in that 2016 list were the respective American stars from NOP and BTC, and the only Brit was the British star from NOP. That doesn't look like coincidence to me.

... so brutally that they were labelled "likely doping"...

anacondarunner, you sound like an anti-Salazar Shill till the end... pot kettle black..

A couple of years ago I was working as an official at a meet at Oregon State. I saw Ken Goe there, and had THE BIGGEST urge to go over and ask, "What is wrong with you?" (I didn't). I long ago got SO tired of his sycophantic writing about Alberto and NOP.

casual obsever wrote:

anacondarunner wrote:Salazar's draconian punishment

Actually, he received the minimum punishment for his anti-doping rule violations as allowed by the code, which is the opposite of "draconian".

I am still hoping that CAS disagrees with such a small punishment.

He also got lucky that - in line with the code - the 4-year ban for testo, the 4-year ban for the forbidden method and the 2-year ban for tampering weren't treated separately, resulting in a 10-year ban.

A strange rule, btw. Imagine committing three different crimes with such jail terms of 2x 4 years and 1x 2 years, and then only serving 4 years...

Last but not least: the only two Americans so brutally crashing through the generous ABP thresholds in that 2016 list were the respective American stars from NOP and BTC, and the only Brit was the British star from NOP. That doesn't look like coincidence to me.

You're right and I regret adopting the above poster's description of Salazar's punishment as draconian. I get how some might see it as draconian vis-a-vis the minor nature of his violations compared to, say, a serial EPO cheat. But yeah, the AAA was all about the rule of lenity and its decision was actually written very favorably for Salazar. The panel strained to give him the benefit of the doubt in many situations where, in my opinion, it clearly wasn't deserved. I'd be shocked if CAS doesn't uphold the ban. There is no argument that he didn't violate the three rules he was ultimately charged with.

kmaclam wrote:

"If you caught Tygart in an honest, unfiltered moment, I'm sure he'd tell you that what USADA charged Salazar with was only the tip of the iceberg."

I take issue with this statement. TOTAL conjecture on your part. You use the words "honest" and I'm sure" . Really!?

It's hardly a stretch to presume that Tygart believes that Alberto has, over the course of his career, committed more violations than just the ones he was charged with. For instance, USADA didn't charge Alberto with rubbing Androgel on any of his athletes, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just means there was no actionable evidence.

anacondarunner wrote:

That said, I take issue with your characterization of Salazar's minor violations as "inadvertent." There was nothing inadvertent about them, particularly the testosterone experiment but also the L-carnitine infusions. Salazar instructing NOP athletes to lie about the nature of the infusions demonstrates as much.

Agreed. Saying "inadvertant" is soft pedaling. It is like coming home to your wife and saying, "honey, I need to tell you something.... I may have accidentally slept with your best friend." Nothing accidental or inadvertant about either situation. Adults making decisions, and those decisions have consequences if you get caught. The best friend didn't just fall on an erect p3nis in the same way people in NOP didnt fall onto a needle.

I listened to the whole interview. Ken is trying to be fair to Salazar but his his definition of cheating is more along the lines of - it’s not cheating unless you get caught breaking a specific rule. He doesn’t see anything wrong with the experiments. He doesn’t consider character or the integrity of the sport. Fitness is all that should matter. I also disagree with his take on these message boards. The forum is the best part of Let’s Run for me.

parkerjohn wrote:

I listened to the whole interview. Ken is trying to be fair to Salazar but his his definition of cheating is more along the lines of - it’s not cheating unless you get caught breaking a specific rule. He doesn’t see anything wrong with the experiments. He doesn’t consider character or the integrity of the sport. Fitness is all that should matter. I also disagree with his take on these message boards. The forum is the best part of Let’s Run for me.

Right, but Salazar did get caught breaking three specific rules, so by Ken's standards, the case against him should be open and shut! But Ken inexplicably seems to believe that the only antidoping rule violation that matters is EPO abuse, and everything else should be free game.

Salazar was a victim of the whiny, hypocritical, leftist’s cancel culture.

anacondarunner wrote:

Salazar did get caught breaking three specific rules, so by Ken's standards, the case against him should be open and shut!.

Kudos to Jonathan Gault for saying he has no sympathy for AS but overall I think he and Wejo could have pushed back a little more.

I’m not an expert on the case but from what I’ve read AS was “experimenting” with l-carnitine, high doses of calcium, testosterone up to certain limits, and thyroid medication. Am I missing anything? Do we have actual proof that can be used in argument against the likes of a Ken Goe?