Some truths about death and Covid-19

Since you are a critical thinker. Why do media all over the world write about Covid-19? You are familiar comparative analysis, right? So in my country, where there is no Trump, every day about Covid-19 and not related to Trump. If you answer, since you have a theory, no auxilary hypothesis, beacuse that only weakens the theory. And as a critical thinker it will take you a few seconds to see if you are falsified or not.

So my critical thinking skills told me to look for an actual statistical analysis of the issue. Turns out you are quite wrong and there have in fact been excess deaths: (note that this doesn't factor in the fact that some types of death have decreased due to the impacts of COVID like other infectious diseases, traffic accidents etc.)

But your premise is that the death rate will be the same. You are in fact incorrect.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Reading stories like these... makes it all seem a bit callous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54966876

https://abc13.com/el-paso-woman-loses-six-family-members-to-covid-19-bonnie-soria-najera-coronavirus-texas-how-long-is-the-shutdown-in/8010251/

The video at the bottom is heart-breaking.

These people are not making it up. It is easily verifiable.

Cool story bro.

Please sign the waiver.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-requiring-people-to-sign-coronavirus-waiver-tulsa-rally-2020-6

Critical thinker wrote:

1) At the end of 2020 the world will see that there are still 3 million deaths in the [United] States.

. . .

2) Regardless of how you FEEL about the topic or your political slant, use some critical thinking skills and common sense in regards to reality.

1) I interpret this to mean that you are asserting the USA will have about the same number of total deaths in 2020 that it had in 2019.

I will put my money where my mouth is and bet you that at least 100,000 more Americans die this year than would have been expected (using CDC excess-total-deaths tables). Winner designates a charity that the loser sends a check to. I'll go further and wager my $500 to your $100. Fair?

2) "Regardless of how you FEEL about the topic or your political slant, use some critical thinking skills and common sense in regards to reality."Yes, do.

And FYI I've been a voter for thirty-plus years and have never once cast a ballot on the Democratic line for any office.

*I would gladly sign a waiver to have the option be responsible for myself and live like a normal person.

*Again comparing 10, 20, 30 and 40 year old's to older people who are not in great health to start with is like apples and oranges.

*As for the media, again it's the same MO anywhere I've been on the globe. The news loves drama. 95% of the things that the report on are negative or controversial.

*And yes I'll take your wager. The US is not under any kind of threat of population decline due to Covid-19.

*And for the record I'm not political either, didn't vote either democrat or republican. I don't put much faith in the leaders of either party. My comment regarding Trump is that everyone knows that he is a lightning rod for the media. No matter what he says or does it is controversial. He happened to be the President when the whole ordeal hit the fan.

*Think back to the night that the team doctor of the Utah Jazz ran onto the basketball court at tip off and made a scene about one of their players (who wasn't even suited up) testing positive. That set off a knee-jerk reaction in the media and the sports world to cancel everything overnight. And as has been shown since then that the sports world continues on.

From an acquaintance:

This what the inside of one hallway of a covid icu looks like. The lines of the iv pumps are fitted with extensions so we can keep them pulled out of the rooms. This decreases exposure and it also helps in case we have to adjust a med quickly. Some of the patients are on levophed (norepinephrine) and other vasoconstriction meds to keep their blood pressure up. Their blood pressure can drop quickly and we do not have time to don full ppe to make the needed adjustments.

Some are on propofol, precedex, and/or fentanyl for sedation. Many of the patients have to stay out, completely. Their vent settings are so high that it is dangerous if they wake up. The pressure and high rates could cause damage to their lungs if they wake up and start hyperventilating or taking in a high tidal volume (a deep breath). With high pressures they cannot take in deep breaths repeatedly because their lungs could pop.

Some patients and families are finally realizing what it means to go to a covid unit. I had to talk to a daughter the other day whose mother is positive and has pulmonary emboli but left ama from the Er because she was scared to come to the covid icu. All I could do was try my best to comfort her and try to get her to convince her mom to come in. Her mother would have stayed if she didn’t have to go to a covid unit. People are terrified of them and think if they go in, they will never come out. They think they will never see their family again and will die alone.

I hate so much that this fear is placed in people and they do not want to come to the hospital now. It is a very true and real fear. Many do not come out alive. Many never see their families again. However, sitting at home with no treatment when you desperately need it, is almost guaranteed a death sentence.

Please stay safe this holiday season. Ensure a negative test before you go see grandma or anyone else for that matter. Please do not get them sick and place this fear in them. That was one of the most awful phone calls I had ever taken. I think about it constantly. I have no idea if that lady was able to convince her mother to come in

On Tuesday there were 1,707 deaths in America. That’s at least one person every minute. This number reflects the 70, 000- 80,000 new cases 2-3 weeks ago. This week, 155,000 new cases. Therefore in 2-3 weeks, there could be 3,000 deaths a day.

Positive cases are up 29% but testing is only up 11%, so it’s not just that more people are tested. More people are positive. All of this is from Johns Hopkins.

Our staff is dropping like flies due to being positive. I tested four this last weekend, three were positive.

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But I guess old people don't count?

Do you have a mother? Father? Grandmother? Grandfather? Family members with health issues?

You people disgust me.

Alan

Critical thinker wrote:

And just like any other time in history do as your mother told you...wash your hands, don't cough on people and just stay home if you are sick.

Fire away.

Now just add wear a mask and social distance. Not hard to do, and if everyone had been doing it all along, most of the economy would be open and we wouldn't be seeing infection rates skyrocketing.

Unfortunately, half the country thinks it's asking too much to wear a mask and social distance, so we're in the situation we're in right now because of them. People that proudly wave their American flags while their behavior undermines it's prosperity. And to not be one-sided, the protesters that don't wear masks and social distance are just as bad.

Critical thinker wrote:

*And yes I'll take your wager. The US is not under any kind of threat of population decline due to Covid-19.

The wager is NOT on whether the US's population declines. Your assertion was that the same number of Americans would die this year as in previous years, and my assertion is that total American deaths for 2020 will be substantially higher; the wager is whether at least 100,000 more Americans die this year than would have been expected (using CDC excess-total-deaths tables), and not on whether the total US population would decline.

If you understand and acknowledge that we're betting on whether there are more American deaths than usual this year, then the wager is on--and respect to you for backing up your assertion. I've been on this board for more than a decade and people know my word is good (also, rojo knows me personally), so you can be confident that if I lose I'll pay up.

And TBH I'd love it if you won, because that would mean a lot of lives saved in the last six weeks of 2020. That'd easily be worth $500 to me.

Runningart2004 wrote:

On Tuesday there were 1,707 deaths in America. That’s at least one person every minute. This number reflects the 70, 000- 80,000 new cases 2-3 weeks ago. This week, 155,000 new cases. Therefore in 2-3 weeks, there could be 3,000 deaths a day.

Positive cases are up 29% but testing is only up 11%, so it’s not just that more people are tested. More people are positive. All of this is from Johns Hopkins.

Our staff is dropping like flies due to being positive. I tested four this last weekend, three were positive.

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But I guess old people don't count?

Quid pro Quo.

I guess that means you believe it is less important for poor kids to receive a quality education, that the millions who are losing jobs, housing and healthcare due to shutdowns don't deserve those, that the lives of people who struggle with addiction or suicide are less important, that the lives of millions of global poor who struggle with food security are of less concern, that business owners should be forced into bankruptcy by shutdowns, that future generations should be forced to deal with fewer government services for decades to save the lives of the old, sick and obese.

Yes. Saving lives matters more. If you want to let your mother and grandmother die that's on your conscience not mine.

Alan

Masks and distancing slow the spread which prolongs the period it takes for everyone to get it which lengthens the duration of shutdowns and negatively impacts the economy. That is the whole purpose of flattening the curve, to not overwhelm hospitals by spreading the infections across a year or two instead of a month or two. Come on man.

My conscience is fine as it is well beyond my control. My main point is that the knee jerk reaction of shutting down an economy to save the lives of 0.2% of the population comes at a great cost. Shutdowns cause our country to take on long term risk for a short term benefit: prioritizing the lives of a few over the lives of the many. I accept the world for what it is and try to find ways to exploit it's insanity in the most ethical ways possible. Spending trillions of dollars in a futile attempt at immortality is a fool's errand.

KaareV wrote:

Since you are a critical thinker. Why do media all over the world write about Covid-19? You are familiar comparative analysis, right? So in my country, where there is no Trump, every day about Covid-19 and not related to Trump. If you answer, since you have a theory, no auxilary hypothesis, beacuse that only weakens the theory. And as a critical thinker it will take you a few seconds to see if you are falsified or not.

Mother of God. This is a Globalist attack. Not a national one.

How can you not understand that?

Bad news the waiver only allowed to attend a Trump rally in Tulsa of all places. There isn’t a waiver the guarantees you all the things you’ve listed.

joedurt wrote:

My conscience is fine as it is well beyond my control. My main point is that the knee jerk reaction of shutting down an economy to save the lives of 0.2% of the population comes at a great cost. Shutdowns cause our country to take on long term risk for a short term benefit: prioritizing the lives of a few over the lives of the many. I accept the world for what it is and try to find ways to exploit it's insanity in the most ethical ways possible. Spending trillions of dollars in a futile attempt at immortality is a fool's errand.

The economy was going to shut down anyway.

People don’t want to crowd bars, restaurants, planes of Disney resorts during a global pandemic.

or*