Two questions about Biden's student loan plan

students voice wrote:

It will be paid for through society as a collective helping educate our young. Why do you oppose this??

In that case, why not forgive ALL loans of every type to every person and institution. Why would you oppose this?

ryan evans wrote:

otter wrote:

I paid my way through college, I am almost finished paying my kids through college, and now through my taxes I get to pay for your college also. Seems fair.

Be happy your kids and grandkids won't be saddled with insurmountable college debt for useless degrees. It's a small price to pay.

I'm sorry you repaid what was probably a whole $3500 in students loans for yourself when you finished school in 1978, but the tuition system *must* be reformed. The government can't subsidize loans and make them non-dischargable any longer. Education prices skyrocketed and gullible kids were tricked into thinking they needed to borrow money for useless degrees. It has shackled a generation into lifelong debt. It should have never been possible.

Useless degree is the problem. Fix that instead.

peoples voice wrote:

students voice wrote:

It will be paid for through society as a collective helping educate our young. Why do you oppose this??

In that case, why not forgive ALL loans of every type to every person and institution. Why would you oppose this?

Well why not?

College loans are one of the larger loans people have but I'd love to live in a society without credit cards or mortgages - wouldn't you?

Tatar wrote:

peoples voice wrote:

In that case, why not forgive ALL loans of every type to every person and institution. Why would you oppose this?

Well why not?

College loans are one of the larger loans people have but I'd love to live in a society without credit cards or mortgages - wouldn't you?

I most certainly would not.

The vast majority of people would never be able to own a home - or at least not until late in life when its utility to them was significantly diminished. Car, boats, ... .higher education would all become unaffordable to most people. This is the society you would choose?

Oh, and in case it never occurred to you - when debts are forgiven, then creditors are being robbed of their rightful property and would be highly unlikely to lend again. No, make that they would absolutely certainly cease all lending when the debt is simply going to to be forgiven.

Oh, come on. Post like an adult. Address the issue of whether this is an arbitrary windfall or not. I gave you good examples that I believe show how mindless this idea is. Making assumptions about my personality or my kids' personality is just lame. I mean I assume you are twit lacking in objectivity or the capability of layered thought, but I'm not going to use that as the entire thrust of an argument.

peoples voice wrote:

Tatar wrote:

Well why not?

College loans are one of the larger loans people have but I'd love to live in a society without credit cards or mortgages - wouldn't you?

I most certainly would not.

The vast majority of people would never be able to own a home - or at least not until late in life when its utility to them was significantly diminished. Car, boats, ... .higher education would all become unaffordable to most people. This is the society you would choose?

Oh, and in case it never occurred to you - when debts are forgiven, then creditors are being robbed of their rightful property and would be highly unlikely to lend again. No, make that they would absolutely certainly cease all lending when the debt is simply going to to be forgiven.

Instead of mortgage or rent you could pay tax on the value of the land you occupy.

No debt and no interest.

I'm not sure it's the best use of executive power. Seems to only hit a narrow section of the population (that, admittedly, is active online). But I'm not fully informed on it.

Tatar wrote:

peoples voice wrote:

In that case, why not forgive ALL loans of every type to every person and institution. Why would you oppose this?

Well why not?

College loans are one of the larger loans people have but I'd love to live in a society without credit cards or mortgages - wouldn't you?

This kind of highlights the mentality of a lot of leftish voters on economic issues unfortunately. You are basically dealing with children on this. This person essentially wants Santa Claus to pay off every debt - mortgage loans, car loans, credit cards, home improvement loans, college loans, Vegas markers - of every person in America.

Under this proposal, do we get to keep using our credit cards after the government pays them off? I mean, this is an ongoing thing where we use them, and send the bills to the US treasury, right? It wouldn't make any sense to just have it as one-off deal. I'd protest that as unfair! Where's the justice?!?!

Tatar wrote:

peoples voice wrote:

I most certainly would not.

The vast majority of people would never be able to own a home - or at least not until late in life when its utility to them was significantly diminished. Car, boats, ... .higher education would all become unaffordable to most people. This is the society you would choose?

Oh, and in case it never occurred to you - when debts are forgiven, then creditors are being robbed of their rightful property and would be highly unlikely to lend again. No, make that they would absolutely certainly cease all lending when the debt is simply going to to be forgiven.

Instead of mortgage or rent you could pay tax on the value of the land you occupy.

No debt and no interest.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does someone sell their house to someone else? How does someone purchase the land and buildings thereon?

If you are just trolling then I would have to say, "Good job!"

But if not, WTF are you talking about?

Harambe wrote:

I'm not sure it's the best use of executive power. Seems to only hit a narrow section of the population (that, admittedly, is active online). But I'm not fully informed on it.

So we can be rational eh? Good.

peoples voice wrote:

Tatar wrote:

Instead of mortgage or rent you could pay tax on the value of the land you occupy.

No debt and no interest.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does someone sell their house to someone else? How does someone purchase the land and buildings thereon?

If you are just trolling then I would have to say, "Good job!"

But if not, WTF are you talking about?

Paying a tax on your land or property? Hmm could work. Let's try it out. We can call it a property tax.

Quasi-Boom wrote:

This kind of highlights the mentality of a lot of leftish voters on economic issues unfortunately. You are basically dealing with children on this. This person essentially wants Santa Claus to pay off every debt - mortgage loans, car loans, credit cards, home improvement loans, college loans, Vegas markers - of every person in America.

Under this proposal, do we get to keep using our credit cards after the government pays them off? I mean, this is an ongoing thing where we use them, and send the bills to the US treasury, right? It wouldn't make any sense to just have it as one-off deal. I'd protest that as unfair! Where's the justice?!?!

Nobody has all the answers but whenever leftists suggests alternatives we get drowned by a tidal wave of support for the status quo. Then, the same people criticizing us end up voting for reality TV stars because they say they're tired of the status quo.

Singapore for example has a very different and very workable model for housing. If Santa Claus does it for them - I don't know why he can't do it elsewhere.

Why would you want to live in a society with omnipresent credit cards, loans and mortgages? Is rising consumer debt good? I'm not saying confiscate them I'm asking why we need them!

Runner10287 wrote:

Harambe wrote:

I'm not sure it's the best use of executive power. Seems to only hit a narrow section of the population (that, admittedly, is active online). But I'm not fully informed on it.

So we can be rational eh? Good.

Yes -- I don't play political team sports like a lot of the posters here. Be it 1 trillion+ loan forgiveness or 250k+ excess deaths or 300+ electoral votes, gotta use the strongest evidence, no conspiracy theories.

peoples voice wrote:

Tatar wrote:

Instead of mortgage or rent you could pay tax on the value of the land you occupy.

No debt and no interest.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does someone sell their house to someone else? How does someone purchase the land and buildings thereon?

If you are just trolling then I would have to say, "Good job!"

But if not, WTF are you talking about?

You sign a contract to pay X amount a month based on the value of the land the property is on. If you want to leave you find someone to take over the contract. See Singapore for a similar real-life example, it's how three quarters of citizens are housed and they have no homelessness and almost everyone can find somewhere that's affordable.

Tatar wrote:

Quasi-Boom wrote:

This kind of highlights the mentality of a lot of leftish voters on economic issues unfortunately. You are basically dealing with children on this. This person essentially wants Santa Claus to pay off every debt - mortgage loans, car loans, credit cards, home improvement loans, college loans, Vegas markers - of every person in America.

Under this proposal, do we get to keep using our credit cards after the government pays them off? I mean, this is an ongoing thing where we use them, and send the bills to the US treasury, right? It wouldn't make any sense to just have it as one-off deal. I'd protest that as unfair! Where's the justice?!?!

Why would you want to live in a society with omnipresent credit cards, loans and mortgages? Is rising consumer debt good? I'm not saying confiscate them I'm asking why we need them!

You were originally proposing debt forgiveness for every debt for every person in America - an absurd, unjust, arbitrary, inequitable and unworkable idea on its face. And yet it is and idea that is not to logically removed this college loan forgiveness idiocy.

You have now deflected into an attempted abstract discussion of debt in general. Leveraging debt is one of the greatest tools ever invented - right up there with the enforceable contractual promise. Much of the incredible progress in the U.S. and the Western world is a result of the availability of debt, and the power to leverage it. This should not even need to be explained to an educated adult.

Questions of how much consumer debt is optimal for any one society at any one point in time are much more complicated, and probably beyond the scope of a partisan message board. But your position seem to be that ZERO consumer debt is optimal (the sweet spot), which circles back to the absurdity of your original proposal. We have come full circle, Mr. Marx.

Tatar wrote:

peoples voice wrote:

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does someone sell their house to someone else? How does someone purchase the land and buildings thereon?

If you are just trolling then I would have to say, "Good job!"

But if not, WTF are you talking about?

You sign a contract to pay X amount a month based on the value of the land the property is on. If you want to leave you find someone to take over the contract. See Singapore for a similar real-life example, it's how three quarters of citizens are housed and they have no homelessness and almost everyone can find somewhere that's affordable.

So, you take out a mortgage and pay X amount each month based on the value of the property. If you want to leave then you find someone to sell it to.

What a good idea! Why hasn't anyone thought of this?

Tatar wrote:

peoples voice wrote:

What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does someone sell their house to someone else? How does someone purchase the land and buildings thereon?

If you are just trolling then I would have to say, "Good job!"

But if not, WTF are you talking about?

You sign a contract to pay X amount a month based on the value of the land the property is on. If you want to leave you find someone to take over the contract. See Singapore for a similar real-life example, it's how three quarters of citizens are housed and they have no homelessness and almost everyone can find somewhere that's affordable.

Citizens in countries like Singapore are educated, responsible, have jobs, and treat each other with respect. Crime rates in the US are way too high for this to work. It's not that housing isn't affordable - I can find plenty of places I can rent on a min wage paycheck, if I want my house broken into every night

peoples voice wrote:

So, you take out a mortgage and pay X amount each month based on the value of the property. If you want to leave then you find someone to sell it to.

What a good idea! Why hasn't anyone thought of this?

It's not that different so you agree it's not a totally absurd unworkable idea then? With my proposal we wouldn't have property investors buying up housing in cheap neighborhoods and selling them to rich folk for massive profit and pushing working class people out of cities.

What you pay isn't based on how much debt a bank will let you have but its place in the community. Houses with good transport links and employment opportunities would be grow but wouldn't be subject to wild property bubbles. And you wouldn't need a down payment and wouldn't owe a bank or interest or pay rent to landlord.

People could afford to pay this and would have secure housing.

Rich liberals could purchase the housing and then rent or sell it cheap to working class people. Buffet and Gates and Winfrey and Bezos could do that today if they really cared about people.