The fact there's only 20 posts in this thread shows how it's all become "ho hum, another banned".
There was a time when the banning of a WC would have been 20 pages, now, another ban is just situation normal but killing the sport.
The fact there's only 20 posts in this thread shows how it's all become "ho hum, another banned".
There was a time when the banning of a WC would have been 20 pages, now, another ban is just situation normal but killing the sport.
It is not the bans that are killing the sport, it is the cheaters.
It leaves a sour taste when you know you are watching a bunch of frauds compete. For me, it makes me not care about the race, at all.
Hey lets ban another champion for literally the only thing anyone outside the sport is interested in every four years. Oh well.
It's pretty obvious that the changing of the Olympics to 2021 has hurt a lot of people. Athletes like Coleman thought he'd have a 100m gold medal around his neck before his two year ban would start. Covid messing up everything lol
VroomVroom wrote:Athletes like Coleman thought he'd have a 100m gold medal around his neck before his two year ban would start. Covid messing up everything lol
Haha yes, Coleman timed that poorly.
Gault is getting slammed on this one and he deserves it for posting the way he did. I've been in contact with older athletes in the sport that coach and still compete in the masters category that say there is no excuse to miss even one test. Manangoi is a young guy that has been in this system pretty much his whole career. The dude posts on Instagram several time a week, he should know how to update his whereabouts and he should be doing it himself. Between this and Naser with her BS excuses this is a collosal disgrace. Ouma's group has lost all credibility in my book and if Tim happens to actually be clean he should be pissed off.
Jackoo wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Timmy never has whereabouts problems...he is always out in his potato field!
Of course you know your racism has a home here so you express it freely.
Take off your Soytard Liberal Latte Brainwashed Goggles and see the reality:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTwkefop9OYrshFNmWmokHO2wWr3P7oTSG_rQ&usqp=CAUJonathan Gault wrote:
The AIU came out today and confirmed Manangoi's suspension for whereabouts failures, which means the 2017 world champ in the 1500 is banned until December 2021.
I read over the case and his explanation for the missed tests are as follows.
Test 1: July 3, 2019
He was traveling back from the Pre Classic and his flight was delayed because his luggage was missing. His house key was in his luggage. He arrived back late on July 2 and said it was already past midnight (so technically July 3) by the time he realized he had to change his window (set for 8-9 a.m. at his training camp in Nairobi).
I was under the impression he still could have changed his window for that day even though it was after midnight when he arrived home. Seems preventable.
Test 2: November 12, 2019
Manangoi's window was 5-6 a.m. He says he was late returning from a night shift connected with his role with the Kenya Police Service since he got caught up in a traffic jam.
Test 3: December 22, 2019
Manangoi says he delegated responsibility for his whereabouts to someone else (not named) and they messed up the dates when he was traveling back from Germany. Thus his window was set at 5-6 a.m. on December 22 when he wouldn't be back in the country until 2:35 p.m.
I tend to believe his explanations (I'm not certain how frequent traffic jams are at 5 in the morning in Nairobi though). But believing him and believing that he should be cleared are two different things. He deserves blame here. Couldn't Manangoi have still changed his window in the first case?
We don't have all the details in the second case, but he was delayed over an hour by traffic at 5 in the morning? Where was he coming from? He probably should have given himself more time to get home.
The third one is the craziest thing to me. He's sitting on two missed tests yet he is still not updating his own whereabouts? I feel bad for the guy, but you have to take responsibility for your own whereabouts at that point. He put his faith in someone else and was let down. Once you have two missed tests, your #1 priority every day should be to make sure you don't have a third. That's a lot harder to do if you're trusting someone else will take care of everything for you.
https://twitter.com/aiu_athletics/status/1327283872191684608
You are really gullible. Despite working out that there is not going to be a traffic jam at 5am.
Say he is tested 10 times a year out of comp if he has missed 3. That does not mean he was not where he should be 3 times per year. It means 30% of the time he is not where he says he should be.
And just because he says something does not make it true. Especially when he is trying to duck out of a doping violation.
I just can't wait for this idiot Renato Canova to come on here and continue to maintain that there is absolutely reason for East Africans to cheat (because they grew up at altitude) - even in the face of a slew of Kenyans (including the 2/3 last Kenyan world 1500m champions and the other trains with one of the guys) now busted.
I'm going to also point out that Manangois excuse for missing the WC in Doha was laughable at best and I pointed this out on these boards when it happened. His "injury" was confirmed here by Canova as being a "7-10 day recovery" at the time and he made the decision to withdraw from the champs with almost 3 weeks remaining between the withdrawl date the heats. Bullsh$t.
Let's see if TC slips up now.
There would be no track and field,and very little sport left,if all the drug cheats were caught out.Still i suppose if it happened the qualifying standard to get to the olympics would drop dramatically.Imagine an olympics where the A standard for the 100 meters is 10.5 for men,and 11.6 for women,or a 13.5 5000 for men,and 15.4 for women,because thats what you'd see happen.
VroomVroom wrote:
Hey lets ban another champion for literally the only thing anyone outside the sport is interested in every four years. Oh well.
It's pretty obvious that the changing of the Olympics to 2021 has hurt a lot of people. Athletes like Coleman thought he'd have a 100m gold medal around his neck before his two year ban would start. Covid messing up everything lol
What are you talking about? He’s banned because he is doping. COVID made him miss the tests/ dope? Why would you want to have another “champion” in the Olympics that isn’t clean?
jeff tallon wrote:
There would be no track and field,and very little sport left,if all the drug cheats were caught out.Still i suppose if it happened the qualifying standard to get to the olympics would drop dramatically.Imagine an olympics where the A standard for the 100 meters is 10.5 for men,and 11.6 for women,or a 13.5 5000 for men,and 15.4 for women,because thats what you'd see happen.
Let me guess. Your 100m pb is 10.5 and your 5K pb 13:50?
Why has he not been done for tampering as his traffic jam excuse was not believed ?
briswiss wrote:
VroomVroom wrote:
Hey lets ban another champion for literally the only thing anyone outside the sport is interested in every four years. Oh well.
It's pretty obvious that the changing of the Olympics to 2021 has hurt a lot of people. Athletes like Coleman thought he'd have a 100m gold medal around his neck before his two year ban would start. Covid messing up everything lol
What are you talking about? He’s banned because he is doping. COVID made him miss the tests/ dope? Why would you want to have another “champion” in the Olympics that isn’t clean?
He was banned for missing three tests. This doesn't mean he took any banned doping substances.
rule reader wrote:
Why has he not been done for tampering as his traffic jam excuse was not believed ?
Are you really a rule reader?
Whether the excuse was believed or not doesn't influence a charge of tampering.
In the case of Kipsang, he sent photos of an accident that occurred on a different day as justification for a traffic jam. This was considered tampering.
In the case of Manangoi, they likely believed the traffic jam excuse, but still considered it negligent not to update his whereabouts as soon as he appreciated that the traffic jam would make him late.
Coevett wrote:
So he comes up with three wacky excuses, which you yourself point out the individual unlikelihood of in each case, but you 'tend to believe him'?
This is what is wrong with society, people are told the obvious but still chose to ignore it.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
And just because he says something does not make it true. Especially when he is trying to duck out of a doping violation.
Exactly.
rekrunner wrote:
rule reader wrote:
Why has he not been done for tampering as his traffic jam excuse was not believed ?
Are you really a rule reader?
Whether the excuse was believed or not doesn't influence a charge of tampering.
In the case of Kipsang, he sent photos of an accident that occurred on a different day as justification for a traffic jam. This was considered tampering.
In the case of Manangoi, they likely believed the traffic jam excuse, but still considered it negligent not to update his whereabouts as soon as he appreciated that the traffic jam would make him late.
They could have thought it negligent but how do you update when in a jam?
If they believed the jam then he would not have got a ban.
Did they test out his excuse by getting traffic records etc.
If not why not?
Wada have given themselves a big problem with tampering encapsulating telling a lie to account for a filing error.
Four year ban must follow as it did in the Dry case.
rule reader wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Are you really a rule reader?
Whether the excuse was believed or not doesn't influence a charge of tampering.
In the case of Kipsang, he sent photos of an accident that occurred on a different day as justification for a traffic jam. This was considered tampering.
In the case of Manangoi, they likely believed the traffic jam excuse, but still considered it negligent not to update his whereabouts as soon as he appreciated that the traffic jam would make him late.
They could have thought it negligent but how do you update when in a jam?
If they believed the jam then he would not have got a ban.
Did they test out his excuse by getting traffic records etc.
If not why not?
Wada have given themselves a big problem with tampering encapsulating telling a lie to account for a filing error.
Four year ban must follow as it did in the Dry case.
If you are a rule reader, can't you also read the AIU verdict at their website?
The applicable rules, and how to intepret them, can be found at WADA's website.
To answer your questions:
- you pull over and update your whereabouts with an app on your phone, or by email. Or you alternatively say you couldn't (e.g. no signal or no battery).
- they found his excuse did not meet the level of showing no negligence -- believability is not a factor when it fails even when believed.
- WADA has not given themselves any problem. WADA has only defined tampering with any stage of the anti-doping process as a punishable offense.
- The AIU considered that photographic evidence of an accident on a different day (plus a signed statement from Kipsang and and one from his driver), was intended to mislead and interfere ("tamper") with the anti-doping process.
- What is the "Dry case"?
Jonathan Gault wrote:
Test 3: December 22, 2019
Manangoi says he delegated responsibility for his whereabouts to someone else (not named) and they messed up the dates when he was traveling back from Germany. Thus his window was set at 5-6 a.m. on December 22 when he wouldn't be back in the country until 2:35 p.m.
I’m surprised no one is raising any flags on this point: delegating your whereabouts management to someone else? And not naming them? That seems a bit absurd (not that I don’t believe he did, but what are the reasons an an athlete would do that?), and a huge red flag. The argument that they don’t trust themselves to update it seems irrational, as the person updating it still has to receive information from the athlete, and it introduces one more error-prone node in the chain where mistakes can be made. Salwa Eid Naser also had someone else managing it for her (a “technical manager” from the Bahrain Athletic Association...), and that struck me as crazy when I read it (but never thought that might be common practice).
It’s pretty easy to imagine if someone else (manager, doctor, trainer, etc.) is the one in charge of or overseeing an athlete’s PED usage, that person will want to have their hand on the dial of the whereabouts times. Again, pretty easy to imagine Michele Ferrari managing Armstrong’s whereabouts if those systems were in place then, or Jama Aden managing Genzebe Dibaba’s, etc.