Do you think Americans will participate in a nationwide lockdown in January?

It's worth mentioning again that he doesn't have the authority to impose a national shutdown or impose a national mask mandate unless he declares Martial Law. Even if he tried to, it would likely be quickly overturned by the Supreme Court. Samuel Alito has already hinted at as much in a speech he gave to the Federalist Society.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-alito-coronavirus-has-caused-previously-unimaginable-restrictions-on-liberty/ar-BB1aZdy7?ocid=uxbndlbing

I don't care about freedom. That's not important. Human rights and all that nonsense can wait. What's important now is that we wear a mask and lock down as much as possible. If the experts say 16-18 months then so be it.

interested reader wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:People will have been living with COVID for about a year by January 2021. The fear is just not there anymore for over half the population.

I predict this comment will not age well. Between now and January 2021, the US is going to sustain an enormous number of covid casualties. All of which you and yours will find a way to rationalize away, no doubt.

What do you mean by "rationalize away"? Evidently there is a highly contagious virus that kills a very minute percentage of healthy people and a small percentage of already sick people. I'm still waiting to hear what we should do that will "shut down the virus" as Biden says. You all love to point to Australia and NZ as examples. These are island nations who have all but sealed their borders. Can we seal our borders? Is that allowed now? If you're still okay with a constant flow of humans across the Rio Grande, then please STFU about me going to a bar after 10pm.

cognitive dissonance much wrote:

If it is mandated, what do you think people will do? Protest in the streets? Simply ignore it and go sneak and hang out with friends?

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

iamconfused wrote:

cognitive dissonance much wrote:

If it is mandated, what do you think people will do? Protest in the streets? Simply ignore it and go sneak and hang out with friends?

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

I still wouldn’t do it even if you gave me 100% of my take home and paused my mortgage.

Yes, I recall when Justice Alito earned his MD in Infectious Diseases. Who cares about him ?!?

Concerned Senior wrote:

Yes, I recall when Justice Alito earned his MD in Infectious Diseases. Who cares about him ?!?

I care.

Justice Alito is more versed in constitutional law than a guy like Fauci. Trampling on the constitution & my freedom is much more worrisome than a virus with a .5% mortality rate (.1% for someone in my specific demographic).

We're always going to have a subset of the population that is very pro-lockdown because they are extremely introverted by nature. You'll see a higher % of these people on message boards/social media in general, and an even higher % on message boards devoted to running.

The truth is, people will not lock down. Me? I would play by the rules to a certain extent. If they start welding doors shut a la China, I will not stand for it.

As an aside, I do not think our economy can handle another lockdown. So we need to weigh the pros/cons of losing all small businesses, many large businesses, and dealing with massive, massive, massive unemployment and poverty.

This sucks. Should have never been political. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Didn't the WHO recently say that they did not support long term lockdowns and that they do more harm than good, i.e., increasing poverty especially among the already poor? I think they said only SHORT time lockdowns were a benefit, to Restock supplies, Reallocate resources where most needed, and Rest overworked health care workers.

Wasn't Biden's plan to "listen to the scientists"?

iamconfused wrote:

cognitive dissonance much wrote:

If it is mandated, what do you think people will do? Protest in the streets? Simply ignore it and go sneak and hang out with friends?

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

That woiuld be because it IS socialism. No, Americans won't 'participate' in a lockdown or nationwide mask mandate.

Epidemiologists see the public health side, economists see the monetary side, doctors see the reality of the disease and judges see the constitutionality. For what it's worth, most economists and doctors I know are against shutdowns. Guys like Fauci have to say what they say without regard for the economy (they give advice, they don't dictate policy, ultimately policy is determined by governors and local health departments), otherwise they will be accused of not acting in the public health interest. Judges have to determine how much authority the constitution gives to certain entities (ultimately we all have personal accountability for our actions and should not blame the government when we get sick).

The reason I would be against a shutdown in January, is it obliterated the economy in the spring when states enacted their own shutdowns and it would set the precedence for another shutdown in March, another in May, ... (how many times have we heard one more week, two more weeks, ... during the pandemic?). Basically if the fear mongers get their way, we will be under lockdown orders until the spring. People are going to die (if we destroy the value of our currency, far more people will ultimately die). Those who are most at risk should voluntarily isolate themselves if they have concerns. The transmission vectors for this disease are well understood. People can choose to behave how they feel is in their self interest. If an employer wants to mandate masks in their establishment, they are free to do so and consumers are free to go elsewhere. If a bunch of rednecks want to get together maskless and kill each others friends and family members, they are free to do so (isn't that what Sturgis Rally was all about this year?).

turkey man wrote:

interested reader wrote:

I predict this comment will not age well.

Saying things won't "age well" hasn't aged well. That tired cliche makes me want to barf. Yet people still think they're clever every time they puke it up.

Some aren't as woke as they think.

+1

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Concerned Senior wrote:

Yes, I recall when Justice Alito earned his MD in Infectious Diseases. Who cares about him ?!?

I care.

Justice Alito is more versed in constitutional law than a guy like Fauci. Trampling on the constitution & my freedom is much more worrisome than a virus with a .5% mortality rate (.1% for someone in my specific demographic).

Nicely said.

Hola-from portland wrote:

I don't care about freedom. That's not important. Human rights and all that nonsense can wait. What's important now is that we wear a mask and lock down as much as possible. If the experts say 16-18 months then so be it.

You've got to be a twentysomething living in your parents basement with no life. Lol.

This exact thing happened in the very liberal state I moved away from this Spring. At the time, an elderly neighbor commented to me that it reminded her of Hitler’s Germany the way people were ratting others out on social media for being outside with masks, shaming them, cancelling them...etc, sitting home in their nice 4 bedroom home collecting their 100k salary because they could work from home safely, whilst blasting judgment on others and fully expecting “someone else” (the $15/hour Amazon or instacart delivery guy) to bear the virus risk to keep their life operating with food and toilet paper

energeticlotuseater wrote:

iamconfused wrote:

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

I still wouldn’t do it even if you gave me 100% of my take home and paused my mortgage.

I would start to consider it for 3x my take home and paused mortgage.

iamconfused wrote:

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

LOL . . . you want 80% of your pay to stay home AND to stop paying rent or your mortgage. That is what Trump University's "Make Money Off of Other People 101" would teach. But you do need to explain how property owner, and lenders, would get 80% of their take home if you refuse to pay rent or a mortgage?

erm wrote:

iamconfused wrote:

America won’t do it. Unless you pay them. If the US government gives everyone 80% of their take home. Pauses rents and mortgages then it will work. But the Republicans will scream socialism.

LOL . . . you want 80% of your pay to stay home AND to stop paying rent or your mortgage. That is what Trump University's "Make Money Off of Other People 101" would teach. But you do need to explain how property owner, and lenders, would get 80% of their take home if you refuse to pay rent or a mortgage?

Just keep printing and handing out that paper. What could possibly go wrong?

energeticlotuseater wrote:

erm wrote:

LOL . . . you want 80% of your pay to stay home AND to stop paying rent or your mortgage. That is what Trump University's "Make Money Off of Other People 101" would teach. But you do need to explain how property owner, and lenders, would get 80% of their take home if you refuse to pay rent or a mortgage?

Just keep printing and handing out that paper. What could possibly go wrong?

And 1% interest rates! Houses valued at 500k can be bid up to 800k with such borrowing power! And probably forever property taxed at that sale price too