Tierney Wolfgram American JR in Marathon - 2:31

oldschoollrc wrote:

Already better than the Olympian Alexi Pappas (2:34:26). Pretty insane. Hope her body holds up running all of these 'thons at a young age.

She's had stress fractures in two metatarsals and a tibial stress fracture already in her young running career. These are indicative of insufficient caloric and calcium intake during her growth years which would indicate she will likely be dealing with osteopenia issues for a long time (unfortunately, a females bones are pretty much set at 18, so this is something that will likely plague her for the duration of her career).

An impressive time, no doubt, but likely at a cost. She will likely suffer from numerous issues similar to those suffered by Alana Hadley, Brie Oakley, etc. As much as kids may love to run, it is the responsibility of the coach to ensure that the athlete is not training in a way that will cause long term damage to their body.

The point is she doesn't have the U19 record without an asterisk.

joed1rt wrote:

She's had stress fractures in two metatarsals and a tibial stress fracture already in her young running career. These are indicative of insufficient caloric and calcium intake during her growth years which would indicate she will likely be dealing with osteopenia issues for a long time (unfortunately, a females bones are pretty much set at 18, so this is something that will likely plague her for the duration of her career).

An impressive time, no doubt, but likely at a cost. She will likely suffer from numerous issues similar to those suffered by Alana Hadley, Brie Oakley, etc. As much as kids may love to run, it is the responsibility of the coach to ensure that the athlete is not training in a way that will cause long term damage to their body.

I had multiple tibial stress fractures in high school - my doctor (and physio) prescribed weight bearing exercises to help build my bone density. My mileage increased significantly in college and after, but I lifted weights (strength training) religiously throughout and have not had a stress fracture again - last stress fracture was when I was 17.

While she is undoubtedly running more miles than I ran in high school, having had prior stress fractures does not mean she will always get them from now on. She can certainly do higher mileage and still do things to prevent future stress fractures - diet and exercise. I think it's great to worry and be mindful of health, but an armchair non-doctor giving medical diagnosis isn't helpful.

NOTE: female bone mass peaks at age 35, it is not "pretty much set at 18".

Hi Mark!

How is Alana’s comeback? Remember when you blamed the “LetsRun trolls” for your daughter’s failed career? Turns out the “trolls” were right after all!

joed1rt wrote:

She's had stress fractures in two metatarsals and a tibial stress fracture already in her young running career. These are indicative of insufficient caloric and calcium intake during her growth years

Protein is the limiting dietary factor in most cases of ostopenia. Bones are 40% protein, and most Americans intake plenty of calcium, but inadequate protein.

GD wrote:

back in MY day wrote:

[quote]GD wrote:

[quote]123 5 wrote:

Did she run in Saucony Endorphin Pros?

To repeat, they confer an average of 2.5 - 3 min performance benefit for elite and sub-elite runners (and much more for some people).

I love how this has become gospel to some people.

I debated responding to this nonsense when you first posted and decided not to bother, but I guess I'll do so now. Nearly all of the criticism was directed not at Alana but at her dad/coach, who by the way was running a coaching business (and apparently quit his job and moved to Oregon in furtherance of it) on the back of Alana's "success." Sure, there were some who had/have a knee-jerk reaction against high schoolers running 100 miles per week and going straight into the marathon regardless of the circumstances, but mostly the negative reaction was based on Mark's and Alana's particular situation. And, let's be real, Alana showed promise as a sophomore/junior in high school then stopped running faster. In fact, she started getting slower and slower at all distances. Agree with it or not, but a lot of people on here also thought she needed to keep working on her speed at the shorter events because the times weren't improving and were indicative (in this view) of a ceiling at the marathon. But Mark kept piling on the miles and instead of saying "hmm, maybe there's something wrong with the training and maybe we should re-think our approach" the reaction was "you're just a bunch of haters persecuting a high school (college) girl!" Personally, I thought it was fair game to discuss (and, yes, criticize) her coaching when she was a pro runner at 19, but for some reason the BroJos apparently bought into the idea that any criticism of a 19 year-old pro should be deleted. Frankly, had it been a 19 year-old boy, I suspect they would have permitted it but goes to show the sensitive times we live in. I'll put it in simpler terms: the board was critical of her dad and his training of his daughter, who was getting slower, and the Hadleys ridiculously turned it into "the board is misogynistic and cruel to teenage girls!" It was an absurd but classic way (mastered by certain current politicians) to respond with misdirection to genuine criticism. And, by the way, she quit running because she was running really, really slowly, not because the world was cruel to her. She didn't have NCAA eligibility and she was not even close to a pro-level runner at that point.

Old hand;

To show how this influences others, I know of a father (coach)/daughter situation which adopted a similar attitude with Alana as the role model - although not actually running a marathon, but heading in that direction (lower mileage however). She stopped improving after her HS junior year, and competed throughout College, but was frustrated at her lack of development.

Never training to run faster in shorter events (other issues as well, including injuries her Senior HS year) is something I tried warning them about.

When I look at Malindi Elmore, running 2h24 Marathon (Can Rec) in her late 30's, after being a 2.02/4.02 runner as a 24 year-old, I wonder what the hurry is for HS runners (and more importantly their parent/ coaches). For that matter, Paula Radcliffe running 58.9 for 400m in HS, and later a 2.05 800m and 4.05 1500m, didn't stop her from running 2h15 later on in her career in her late 20's to early 30's.

Yeah, it’s very sad how Mark used his own daughter to advance his coaching career. Making her run monster miles was in the short term interest of his business, but at the long term detriment of Alana.

She made a big fuss about her comeback in 2017, but nothing was heard of it again.

Everything went exactly like the “LetsRun” haters predicted.

providencejournal.com/sports/20170126/heres-what-former-running-prodigy-now-20-has-to-say-to-haters

There is an article out there where she said the first marathon it was just her and her parents training and they went up to 120 miles per week.

She said she was wrecked and was injured for the better part of 10 months.

She wasn’t intending on doing another but when she regained her health, she was much stronger. She ran less miles this time but still topped out at 100.

She also this was her last marathon for a while. She just wanted the record and now will focus on the track.

old hand is right. The negative comments back then were almost entirely directed towards AH's dad/coach for enabling what everyone knew would eventually happen.

And let's not forget, by the time she was a 19 year old pro, she had been a pro for 3 full years. She "turned pro" at 16 when she took prize money at the 2013 tobacco road marathon with the goal of paying her way through college with pro running income rather than a scholarship. From that point on she was ineligible for her remaining hs years and all of college. I thought then and think now that comments and criticism directed towards the coach of an adult 3 year pro is fair game.

Wolfgram on the other hand competed for her high school team and is will be competing for her college team. She has not given up her eligibility. Big difference from AH.

For perspective, I just did some rough calculations:

Her time is approximately a 17:57 5K pace, but running that 8 1/2 times, NONSTOP.

WOW.

Not saying the time isn't impressive. It is, but it likely comes at a long term cost. I've seen a lot of young kids do impressive things by their coaches having them log a lot of miles during their growth years only to plateau and struggle with injuries later on because their bone density is poor. IMHO It's better to allow kids to grow and gradually build the mileage in a healthy way to where they can handle it later on, and when they get to college and their mileage is increased, they will be able to improve. It is worth reiterating that she has already had three stress fractures at least in her young career.

Here is a good interview with Lisa Rainsberger who advocates for lower mileage and a more balanced approach to running:

https://www.youthrunner.com/news/story/lisa-larsen-rainsberger-interview-with-mick-grant

joedirtball wrote:

Not saying the time isn't impressive. It is, but it likely comes at a long term cost. I've seen a lot of young kids do impressive things by their coaches having them log a lot of miles during their growth years only to plateau and struggle with injuries later on because their bone density is poor. IMHO It's better to allow kids to grow and gradually build the mileage in a healthy way to where they can handle it later on, and when they get to college and their mileage is increased, they will be able to improve. It is worth reiterating that she has already had three stress fractures at least in her young career.

Here is a good interview with Lisa Rainsberger who advocates for lower mileage and a more balanced approach to running:

https://www.youthrunner.com/news/story/lisa-larsen-rainsberger-interview-with-mick-grant

with the new carbon-foam shoe era that give faster times, they do less damage to bone density.

joedirtball wrote:

Not saying the time isn't impressive. It is, but it likely comes at a long term cost. I've seen a lot of young kids do impressive things by their coaches having them log a lot of miles during their growth years only to plateau and struggle with injuries later on because their bone density is poor. IMHO It's better to allow kids to grow and gradually build the mileage in a healthy way to where they can handle it later on, and when they get to college and their mileage is increased, they will be able to improve. It is worth reiterating that she has already had three stress fractures at least in her young career.

Here is a good interview with Lisa Rainsberger who advocates for lower mileage and a more balanced approach to running:

https://www.youthrunner.com/news/story/lisa-larsen-rainsberger-interview-with-mick-grant

Now we just have to wait until someone who is definitely not Mark H. comes here to lambaste that article.

joedirtball wrote:

Not saying the time isn't impressive. It is, but it likely comes at a long term cost. I've seen a lot of young kids do impressive things by their coaches having them log a lot of miles during their growth years only to plateau and struggle with injuries later on because their bone density is poor. IMHO It's better to allow kids to grow and gradually build the mileage in a healthy way to where they can handle it later on, and when they get to college and their mileage is increased, they will be able to improve. It is worth reiterating that she has already had three stress fractures at least in her young career.

Here is a good interview with Lisa Rainsberger who advocates for lower mileage and a more balanced approach to running:

I have also seen a ton of kids do low mileage speed stuff only. to plateau, struggle with injury and quit the sport. It isn't clear to me that one way works significantly better than the other. We do have a lot more people doing the lower volume approach so we do end up with more people from that group.

It should be pointed out that there is always a middle ground. Your choices aren't between. running 90 mpw and 30 mpw. You can run say 50. Same thing with speed. If you. are a distance running I am not convinced that training for the 200m is going to have a ton of value. That doesn't mean you can't do things like 10s hills 1x/week. And obviously the difference between say a 12. year old middle schooler and a 17 year old starting their senior year is pretty darn huge.

Just placed 2nd at the Mountain regional.

https://tfrrs.org/results/xc/18935/NCAA_Division_I_Mountain_Region_Cross_Country_Championships

jabouko wrote:

Just placed 2nd at the Mountain regional.

Wow, her nearest teammate was two minutes back and Nevada took 13th place. How did she end up in Reno?

Donde Wolf Pack wrote:

jabouko wrote:

Just placed 2nd at the Mountain regional.

Wow, her nearest teammate was two minutes back and Nevada took 13th place. How did she end up in Reno?

This article which has already been posted tells how she got to Nevada. By the way she trains with the men's team. Also she is still only 18 years old and should be a true freshman except she skipped her senior year in HS.