Is the average time of a 4x1600m workout with 400m jog rest usually a pretty close indicator of 5k potential?
I just did 4:57/4:55/4:57/4:57 with the jogs in 2:19 average. I don't currently have track access, so it was on the roads solo with a few sharp turns. The first three reps felt smooth and under control (solidly a non-race effort), but the last 600m of the final rep was definitely tough.
Background:
27 y/o, avg. just under 70 miles last 10 weeks, short tempos (3-5 miles) at 5:20-5:30, long tempos (6-10 miles) at 5:35-5:45, long runs of 14-19 miles usually starting in the low 7s and spending a lot of time between 6 and 6:30.
I haven't gotten to race much this year because of COVID, but I did go 15:54 and 16:00 on the track earlier this year in the warmer weather when I was doing less mileage and less quality. However, I do have a track 5k coming up in just over two weeks with lots of guys in the 14s and 15s.
I want to even split, so is aiming for 15:30 pace all the way through a workable plan?
4x1600m with 400m jog = 5k pace?
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It is a reasonable guess but road miles should be taken as +-5-10s from track ones. Going out around 5:00 seems reasonable and adapt on how you are doing.
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OK thanks! Curious about the 5-10 second rule though- is this due to unreliability of GPS? Because I ran the previous 5k races at the same track I'm racing on before and my watch was (surprisingly) basically right at 5k both times. I also ran these 1600s in an area where there's a 1k loop and a 600m loop that both measure very consistently every time I run there.
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Oh sorry, just saw the plus AND minus sign there! That makes more sense. Thanks.
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Honestly if I were to do mile repeats with 2-3 minutes rest I would probably be doing them at closer to 10k pace than 5k pace. Either you ran this a lot harder than you are letting on or you are due for a big PR in your next race, because this indicates something more along the lines of 15:10/31:30, imo.
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5k pace or possibly slower wrote:
Honestly if I were to do mile repeats with 2-3 minutes rest I would probably be doing them at closer to 10k pace than 5k pace. Either you ran this a lot harder than you are letting on or you are due for a big PR in your next race, because this indicates something more along the lines of 15:10/31:30, imo.
Bingo. -
Interesting- I guess I can maybe aim for going out the first four laps at 15:20 pace and then adjusting from there. Thanks!
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4x1600 w/ 3’ standing rest seems to be right on my 5k pace when run at about 8/10 effort.
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Awesome! Thanks for the input. Based on that, I feel like I have some confirmation for my plan to go out in about 15:20 pace, or 4:55 for the first 1600.
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Better workout is 1.5 mile or 2.0 mile or 5k time trial.... not an all out time trial --- more like a " High Tempo time trial"....problem with intervals is you are constantly looking for a break in the action..problem wiht .time trails are mentally challenging -----so I ran them more like tempo run.... and followed with 3x 200 speed work.....get used to running your race distance without stopping/dividing it into 3 or 4 segments.
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Thanks. I was actually planning on running a 3200m at goal 5k pace at the end of next week, 9 days out from the race. Since I won't be fully tapered and I'll be by myself, it will be a tough effort. Would that qualify as the type of pseudo time trial you are talking about?
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I actually just went out an ran a slightly easier workout.
3x1600, 1x800 w/ 3’ standing rest on the track. I shortened the last rep this was moving from 7-8/10 effort to 9/10 effort and wanted to keep things under control. Ended up at 4:59/4:59/4:58/2:29. I am hoping to break 15:40 in 14 days for what it’s worth. Also planning to run a 3k next week (also 10 days out from target 5k).
You seem to be slightly more fit bizarro me.
I concur you should be able to go under 15:30, maybe under 15:20. On the other hand perhaps my fitness isn’t as good as I was hoping.
What are you hoping for in the 3200? 9:3x? -
Haha thanks! Good luck to you! Yeah, I'm thinking 9:3x might be possible on roads in a solo TT effort, but I might focus more on doing goal 5k pace for the majority of the 3200m and then trying to kick it in a bit the last 800m. I want the session to give me a taste of the pain of a race while also helping me nail down the proper pace.
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Also, what's your goal for 3k? Sub-9 in the cards?
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That was the original goal for this cycle but seems like it might be a touch out of reach. I’ll probably try to take the first k around 3 and try to either limit my drop off or surprise myself.
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tokyo421 wrote:
Is the average time of a 4x1600m workout with 400m jog rest usually a pretty close indicator of 5k potential?
I just did 4:57/4:55/4:57/4:57 with the jogs in 2:19 average. I don't currently have track access, so it was on the roads solo with a few sharp turns. The first three reps felt smooth and under control (solidly a non-race effort), but the last 600m of the final rep was definitely tough.
Background:
27 y/o, avg. just under 70 miles last 10 weeks, short tempos (3-5 miles) at 5:20-5:30, long tempos (6-10 miles) at 5:35-5:45, long runs of 14-19 miles usually starting in the low 7s and spending a lot of time between 6 and 6:30.
I haven't gotten to race much this year because of COVID, but I did go 15:54 and 16:00 on the track earlier this year in the warmer weather when I was doing less mileage and less quality. However, I do have a track 5k coming up in just over two weeks with lots of guys in the 14s and 15s.
I want to even split, so is aiming for 15:30 pace all the way through a workable plan?
Hard to say... I used to do 3x1600 w a 400 jog rest. I would do them all pretty hard, averaging 4:30, but my 5k best was only 14:36 on the road. I think I was good for low to mid-14:20s on the track, but, clearly, I was slower than those 1600 reps, so it all depends on how hard you were running them.
Could I have eked out a 4th rep? Probably, but it would’ve been all out. So, for me, this workout was probably more an indicator of my two-mile capability, not quite 5k. FWIW. -
Never time trial for specific time --- go 3/4 effort. On race day you know you can go faster.
The time trials teach you to run the required distance --- rather than breaking it into segments like a wussy.
1. Run races to win or place as high as you can ---- don't race for time(s)
2. Time trials do at 3/4 effort --- you know you can do better on race day. -
Another workout I used to do was two miles at 10k pace, followed by a 5 min jog rest, then 4x2 min hard w 1 min jog rest.
The two mile was hard but not all out (probably 95% effort), and it was always a good predictor of my 10k pace. I’m not sure a 3200 time trial will serve you well. I never would’ve been able to sustain 5k pace for that distance running solo. -
LSD dude wrote:
Another workout I used to do was two miles at 10k pace, followed by a 5 min jog rest, then 4x2 min hard w 1 min jog rest.
The two mile was hard but not all out (probably 95% effort), and it was always a good predictor of my 10k pace. I’m not sure a 3200 time trial will serve you well. I never would’ve been able to sustain 5k pace for that distance running solo.
Some ppl are better at running solo no offense you must suck at running solo if 2mi at 10k pace is 95% effort -
tokyo421 wrote:
Oh sorry, just saw the plus AND minus sign there! That makes more sense. Thanks.
It is a function of accuracy (i.e. GPS, wheel whatever), road surface (concrete, asphalt versus track), loop versus straight and the any elevation/turns, and so on. The differences don't really matter until you are trying to predict race performances....
Back in the day Coe was reported to do something like 6x800 in 1:53 with a 3 min rest which seemed absurdly hard. Later it was reported it was some downhill road 800m which makes it a lot harder to figure. out how absurd it was.
