How are Europe's Coronavirus Cases so Bad???

Is you there? wrote:

Fred G Sanford wrote:

Nigeria: The median age in is 18 years.

USA: The median age is 38.

Death rate from Covid is the same. Seems to me that the USA is doing a better job than Nigeria.

Lol. You can probably make a case that the US has 0.008% deaths and Nigeria 27% if you're willing to fudge numbers any way you want.

In reality, or should we say the fake reality, according to the "official" sources you provided, Nigeria has 1,144 deaths out of a population of 196 million. USA supposedly has what, 300,000 dead out of 328 million?

I don't think it takes past 2nd grade math to figure out the ratios? Correct?

It does take math skills beyond the 2nd grade to understand terms such as "median". Wait a second! Am I debating with Lebron James here? ;)

How many international travelers go between Europe/Asia and the US on a daily basis? How many go to Nigeria?

Nigeria is not as impacted because the international mobility is far lower than US and European countries. There are literally hundreds of factors that impact disease spread and pretending one countries experience can disprove the impact of any individual factor is ignorant or purposefully deceptive.

Tatar wrote:

huh what wrote:

As for Asia, it increasingly looks like they just have a degree of natural immunity that westerners don’t have.

Nonsense?

FAR less wealthy countries have dealt better with COVID than any country in Europe or North America. Yes, they had the infrastructure post-SARS but the ability of government agencies and talent of civil service and politicians in those countries has dwarfed us.

We've just been told since the Reagan days in the 1980s how government is always inefficient and now the rest of the world has pulled a number on us.

^This. People in many Asian countries are complying with the contact tracing because they believe the government is doing the right thing. They even accept the digital tracking by the GPS devices.

This is not rocket science. Test, trace and isolate will get the virus under control. So many people in Europe and Americas do not want to control the virus.

Fred G Sanford wrote:

Other guy wrote:

https://www.geographyrealm.com/continents-population-density/

Asia is the most densely populated continent.

Europe second with about 75% of the density of Asia,

Europe swamped with Covid cases.

Asia is not

No one in their right mind would believe Covid numbers provided by many Asian countries.

So believe the numbers that support your worldview, but not those that don't?

Got it.

Actually, I am with you.

Nobody in their right mind believes the Covid numbers for America

How bad is it in USA when comparisons with African countries are being made?

Fred G Sanford wrote:

Is you there? wrote:

Lol. What's the population density in Nigeria?

The population density in Nigeria is 226 per Km2 (586 people per mi2). The median age in Nigeria is 18.1 years.

The population density in Hong Kong is 6,690 per sq km. The median age in Hong Kong is 43.2. The median age in the U.S. is 37.9. We can play these games all day. Tokyo is the largest city in the world. Yet the death rate in N Dakota is about 50 times higher. Explain please.

Do you have any idea how big Asia is? Sure, let's average covid deaths in the Philippines and Uzbekistan together. That's a meaningful number.

People need to stop with this density crap. What is relevant is that there are densely populated counties in East and SE Asia (S Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) with cases and deaths per pop many orders of magnitude lower than in North/Latin America and Europe. Furthermore, none of these countries ever shut down. So we have country case studies we can examine. Hint: these differences cannot be explained by density, air conditioning, or other superficial measures.

Fred G Sanford wrote:

Is you there? wrote:

Lol. You can probably make a case that the US has 0.008% deaths and Nigeria 27% if you're willing to fudge numbers any way you want.

In reality, or should we say the fake reality, according to the "official" sources you provided, Nigeria has 1,144 deaths out of a population of 196 million. USA supposedly has what, 300,000 dead out of 328 million?

I don't think it takes past 2nd grade math to figure out the ratios? Correct?

It does take math skills beyond the 2nd grade to understand terms such as "median". Wait a second! Am I debating with Lebron James here? ;)

Lol. I seem to be debating with a trilobite.

formerly present wrote:

Is you there? wrote:

If you want to be taken seriously, don't present anything from John Hopkins. A Bill Gates, NWO funded element, that is at this point in time, the leading driver of the misinformative data. This is the pseudo data that you see all over mass media.

I would love for this to be subtle trollage (note the clever misspelling of Johns Hopkins)--I was gonna give 7/10--but I suspect it is not.

In essence, if you're not willing to trust Johns Hopkins then you're not willing to trust *any* source that might contradict your predetermined opinion.

Wow. Just wow. And here folks is where the problem lies. A horde of believers hinging their life existence on this god source -Joke Hopkins.

The difference between you and me is that I will not ever trust a source with severe conflicts of interest. Don't they teach you this in your code of conduct training? Wait, do you even work or are you typing this from mom's basement?

TI-23 wrote:

People need to stop with this density crap. What is relevant is that there are densely populated counties in East and SE Asia (S Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) with cases and deaths per pop many orders of magnitude lower than in North/Latin America and Europe. Furthermore, none of these countries ever shut down. So we have country case studies we can examine. Hint: these differences cannot be explained by density, air conditioning, or other superficial measures.

South Korea never shut down, but Vietnam and Thailand did. (So did Singapore.)

And here are the deaths per million.

Vietnam 0.4

Thailand 0.8

South Korea 9.

South Korea is 11 times worse than Thailand and 22 times worse than Vietnam.

Is you there? wrote:

formerly present wrote:

I would love for this to be subtle trollage (note the clever misspelling of Johns Hopkins)--I was gonna give 7/10--but I suspect it is not.

In essence, if you're not willing to trust Johns Hopkins then you're not willing to trust *any* source that might contradict your predetermined opinion.

Wow. Just wow. And here folks is where the problem lies. A horde of believers hinging their life existence on this god source -Joke Hopkins.

The difference between you and me is that I will not ever trust a source with severe conflicts of interest. Don't they teach you this in your code of conduct training? Wait, do you even work or are you typing this from mom's basement?

So please tell us what sources do you trust that collect national data at a granular level. Because if no such sources exist we may as well just throw in the towel on trying to contain covid.

Well, if you let your guard down, the virus wins.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/czech-republic-goes-full-trump-095539118.html

In UK we have a n expected rise in cases.

In the rise of the first spike we only tested people on admission to hospital and low number of healthcare workers for protection. Positive rate was amazingly low depsite these people being hospitalised. Death rate very bad due to care homes and positives were already in bad state.

After first spike we rapidly ramped up testing to 100 000 - 200 000 per day and became most testing nation oer capita, but positives fell. This is because most tests now went to healthcare workers with no symptoms for protection.

The new rise is a combination of many factors; it is the expected time of year rise. But the mass testing is now available to anyone who is symptomatic. Therefore we are picking up many many more cases than before, during a natural rise.

Death rates are much lower because of the age profile of the new positives and the fact that the vast majority of people who are not hospitalised are now being picked up.

Pretty obvious in the UK.

If the numbers now plateau and fall due to Bojos new lockdown, and if the deaths stay low and begin to fall, then Boris might just have played a blinder.

France, as i said weeks ago, continues to be a worry. all their number need to fall rapidly.

Belgium is, again, the worst basket case - small, densely populated, heavily trassitted. They have virtually everything against them. They have probably the 'worst' politics in the developed world (going many months without a government), but i still dont fault them for their hideous results.

The Virus will win. It will kill the people that are ordained to die (a small %), and the rest will recover. You can't hide from it in your basement.

When all’s said and done there are no winners, just losers against coronavirus.

huh what wrote:

Answer: The people telling you that Europe is superior and the US is inferior are the same America-hating liberals who tell you that about everything.

As for Asia, it increasingly looks like they just have a degree of natural immunity that westerners don’t have.

As someone with a degree in immunology I can tell you this is not it. Yes, some populations of people have inherent genetic mechanisms to protect them from certain diseases (sickle cell, malaria). However, the lack of cases in Asia is due to really good test and trace entities. My classmate flew home to China, was quarantined for 14 days, tested 3 times, and notified that 5 people on her flight tested positive for COVID (this was in March). Robust test and trace works- you just have to have a willing population.

Everyone magically knows immunology these days. The answer is right in front of us (robust testing and tracing) and people try to go through the annals of immunology to find some obscure answer to support their beliefs.

It's gonna hit each country sooner or later. You either accept that and let people live like Sweden and get to herd immunity quickly, limp along like the US, or do repeated shutdowns like Europe.

It follows a very similiar trend everywhere. Places hit hard experience lower levels of cases. It has nothing to do with social distancing or masks. They just are further along the herd immunity curve. The European countries hard hit in the spring are nowhere near the same death count as they were in the first wave for the most part.

If you look at the US states hit hard already have declining or much lower deaths than at peak. This can be seen in Texas, Arizona, Florida, New York, etc. Even So Cal that stayed far more active than the bay area has been way down despite reopening of some things. The states not hit hard initially are now feeling their wave. In a couple of months, they will be significantly down as well. This is a very basic scientific thing yet leaders refuse to follow it.

Europe is a few weeks ahead of usa. It will hit you as well hard. This is a lesson in the dynamics of exponential growth. The growth function we see in europe has not changed a lot recently. We see exponential growth since a while and now suddenly everybody is surprised. Humans have difficulty to understand exponential growth.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Well, if you let your guard down, the virus wins.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/czech-republic-goes-full-trump-095539118.html

More than this, it is now clear that containment is not a successful strategy. Italy kept many restrictions in place over the summer, but the virus still surged due to family gatherings and young people having parties outside of bars and nightclubs. Germany's substantial testing and tracing infrastructure could not keep up once the numbers started ticking upward. And there is growing evidence that testing and tracing is ineffective as a strategy to suppress an outbreak because it is too slow and does not find a high enough percentage of cases to stop further transmission. Contact tracing and testing can be effective at stopping local outbreaks when numbers are very low in the community. And that is why it is now clear that the only effective strategy is to go for zero. That is what they did in Asia and Oceania and what the Nordics are struggling to do (save and except Sweden).

-Higher population density

-Higher % use of public transit

-It's colder in Europe earlier in the year.

Don't worry-- winter is coming to the US too...