Reading the book now and it's good so far. Don't know how truthful it is but entertaining reading and some viewpoints are presented.
Reading the book now and it's good so far. Don't know how truthful it is but entertaining reading and some viewpoints are presented.
Jenny Simpson could have easily said she has never seen Dr. Brown and said she has never used thyroid hormone therapy. She could have easily made a proud statement later that she never used Salazar’s endocrinologist.
She didn’t because she couldn’t. Have you seen the video? She was obviously covering up the fact she used the same dirty doctor as Salazar who she hypocritically called out for being a cheat.
Her reputation took a MASSIVE hit! Some even calling on her to return her medals.
drug drug wrote:
Jenny Simpson could have easily said she has never seen Dr. Brown and said she has never used thyroid hormone therapy. She could have easily made a proud statement later that she never used Salazar’s endocrinologist.
She didn’t because she couldn’t. Have you seen the video? She was obviously covering up the fact she used the same dirty doctor as Salazar who she hypocritically called out for being a cheat.
Her reputation took a MASSIVE hit! Some even calling on her to return her medals.
I guess she could have easily done a hundred things. In this case it looks like she did something a little harder and took a principled stance.
I don't know if her reputation took any hit at all, but if so it doesn't seem to be justified, given that it is not clear she received any treatment at all, and especially considering that thyroid is not banned, and therefore cannot be considered cheating, and is not considered performance enhancing by the only body able to make that call.
Either way, she doesn't get much sympathy here:
I’m pretty sure if she was not a patient of Dr. Brown’s and not on thyroid hormone therapy, she would have struck down that question with a firm hammer!
It’s pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that she is a patient of Dr. Brown’s and on thyroid hormone therapy. It was the utter irony that she chastised others for doing the exact same thing that she is doing that brought about the scorn.
Now, all of her performances are tainted in the same way NOP’s are!
casual obsever wrote:
Either way, she doesn't get much sympathy here:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9630787
Yet it doesn't seem to be justified, given that there would be nothing wrong, from an anti-doping perspective.
Perhaps some people are just poorly informed about the nature of Dr. Brown's ban, which had nothing to do with thyroid hormone - a substance which is not banned and not considered to be performance enhancing by the body that decides banned substances.
drug drug wrote:
I’m pretty sure if she was not a patient of Dr. Brown’s and not on thyroid hormone therapy, she would have struck down that question with a firm hammer!
It’s pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that she is a patient of Dr. Brown’s and on thyroid hormone therapy. It was the utter irony that she chastised others for doing the exact same thing that she is doing that brought about the scorn.
Now, all of her performances are tainted in the same way NOP’s are!
She did strike down that question with a firm hammer.
I think you mean "obvious to anyone with half a brain".
Are NOP performances tainted? Considering thyroid hormone is not banned and there is no way to believe it is performance enhancing, why would any thyroid-supplemented NOP performances be tainted?
Furthermore, USADA's Tygart confirmed to us that we (or rather the IOC and WADA) would not find any NOP athletes were doped, as Tygart looked during the Salazar investigation, leaving no stone unturned, and he could find noone.
Seems like most people who care about cheating in sports should have been comforted by that fact.
bannned i got wrote:
oh recktal you are so silly...i wasnt mocking you that this vaccine would improve performance....which would be foolish as you dont think ANYTHING can improve performance. i was mocking your dumba$$ on how you think chemicals cant improve things so why would a vaccine work to keep us healthy? where is that other moran that claims nothing can work cause it violates thermodynamics....he MUST be an antivaxer haha
and im sure rek you will be first in line to get the stamp...i mean the vaccine
Oh silly hanging Chad. You have only deluded yourself into believing I have argued or concluded "chemicals can't improve things" - an oversimplification and severe dumbing down of my real thoughts. You are mocking a cartoon that you created.
Once again, I have no doubt that many drugs have a proven primary physical effect, especially when "proven" in lengthy clinical trials by directly observing 90% effective desired results. Drugs like EPO predictably and consistently stimulates red blood cell production, and testosterone stimulates muscle growth -- something especially significant for women. However, showing and observing the direct primary physical effect caused by drugs is not the same as showing the much more complex cause and effect relation towards the fastest running performances.
I should point out that the implicit consequence in this discussion that argues against established expertise that "only thyroid can produce sub-27 and sub-13 non-African runners" is that EPO and testosterone and HGH and IGF and ESAs didn't "work" for non-Africans.
rekrunner wrote:
I should point out that the implicit consequence in this discussion that argues against established expertise that "only thyroid can produce sub-27 and sub-13 non-African runners" is that EPO and testosterone and HGH and IGF and ESAs didn't "work" for non-Africans.
LOL, what?
a) Who said that?
b) What is the evidence?
c) We know that at least some of the "sub-27 and sub-13 non-African runners" used other tricks too, including steroids and likely blood doping.
In conclusion, well I won't go there, not worth my time.
I don't trust anything that is said by former NOP athletes Kara and Adam Goucher. "I didn't achieve the success I wanted at NOP so I blame the coach". Same with Mary Cain. "I sucked when I got to NOP and never really won anything or improved so I blame the coach". STILL A FACT: No Salazar athlete has ever, I mean NEVER, not once, ZILCH, nada- has EVER failed a drug test. Did Salazar push the limits? Absolutely! ....BUT LEGALLY obviously since none of his athletes have ever tested positive for anything but records and medals. But please! Go interview Kara Goucher again! #SNOOZE
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
I should point out that the implicit consequence in this discussion that argues against established expertise that "only thyroid can produce sub-27 and sub-13 non-African runners" is that EPO and testosterone and HGH and IGF and ESAs didn't "work" for non-Africans.
LOL, what?
a) Who said that?
b) What is the evidence?
c) We know that at least some of the "sub-27 and sub-13 non-African runners" used other tricks too, including steroids and likely blood doping.
In conclusion, well I won't go there, not worth my time.
a) Implicit: "suggested though not directly expressed" - the "stronger" thyroid is, the weaker all other PEDs must have been; similarly, the "stronger" these other PEDs, the weaker thyroid must have been.
b) Dearth of sub-27 and sub-13 performances before Salazar/NOP/Schumacher/BTC
c) Of course they did -- and yet, dearth of sub-27 and sub-13 performances before Salazar/NOP/Schumacher/BTC
There is no evidence whatsoever for your implications, because you do not know who used "EPO and testosterone and HGH and IGF and ESAs". That many used thyroid meds, doesn't imply they didn't use harder stuff too.
wazzu1452 wrote:
STILL A FACT: No Salazar athlete has ever, I mean NEVER, not once, ZILCH, nada- has EVER failed a drug test.
Incorrect. Not a fact at all.
wazzu1452 wrote:
Did Salazar push the limits? Absolutely! ....BUT LEGALLY obviously since none of his athletes have ever tested positive for anything but records and medals.
No. Obviously illegally because he was banned for three anti-doping rule violations. Also let's not forget that one of his athletes was banned for testo abuse and he himself used testo as athlete too.
Thank for reminding us what a cheat banned Salazar was.
wazzu1452 wrote:
I don't trust anything that is said by former NOP athletes Kara and Adam Goucher. "I didn't achieve the success I wanted at NOP so I blame the coach". Same with Mary Cain. "I sucked when I got to NOP and never really won anything or improved so I blame the coach". STILL A FACT: No Salazar athlete has ever, I mean NEVER, not once, ZILCH, nada- has EVER failed a drug test. Did Salazar push the limits? Absolutely! ....BUT LEGALLY obviously since none of his athletes have ever tested positive for anything but records and medals. But please! Go interview Kara Goucher again! #SNOOZE
The problem with "never failed a test" facts is this triggers the "what about Armstrong?" reflex (which itself is a myth because he actually failed 4 tests in 1999 for cortico-steroids and 6 urine tests in 1999 later tested positive for EPO -- making 10 failed tests from 1999 alone).
What we can say for NOP athletes is much, much stronger, than "never failed a test". The best way to overcome the failure of testing to catch dopers are investigations -- NOP was the subject of intense scrutiny in at least a 5-year investigation, with at least two whistleblowers, and at least 30 current and former NOP athletes and staff interviewed. In all: "USADA’s investigation yielded a wide range of evidence referenced in the hearing, including eye-witness proof, testimonies, contemporaneous emails, and patient records. Between the two cases, USADA relied on more than 2,000 exhibits, which the AAA heard along with the defendants’ cases. In all, the proceedings included 30 witnesses and 5,780 pages of transcripts."
And the end result was that no single NOP athlete, in the history of NOP, was charged with an anti-doping rule violation, unless you count Steve Magness, who definitely received an excess infusion of another non-banned substance, against the rules. It is not clear that he was ever charged either. Tygart confirmed:
"USADA did not sanction any of (Salazar's) athletes after finding no evidence of any wrongdoing by them."
"What they (WADA) would have learned is that we left no stone unturned (in relation to any athletes)."
casual obsever wrote:
No. Obviously illegally because he was banned for three anti-doping rule violations. Also let's not forget that one of his athletes was banned for testo abuse and he himself used testo as athlete too.
Thank for reminding us what a cheat banned Salazar was.
This always sounds worse than it is when you blur the details of the ban. The three violations are:
1) an excessive infusion of the non-banned substance l-carnitine for Steve Magness;
2) an email construed as attempted tampering with the anti-doping process, regarding l-carnitine infusions; and
3) supplying testosterone to non-athletes not subject to WADA
So when you say "obviously illegally" this obviousness does not extend to any NOP athletes with the possible exception of Steve Magness.
casual obsever wrote:
There is no evidence whatsoever for your implications, because you do not know who used "EPO and testosterone and HGH and IGF and ESAs". That many used thyroid meds, doesn't imply they didn't use harder stuff too.
Performances are evidence. I do not need to know who doped to conclude they failed to run sub-27 and sub-13 (*).
There are two possibilities:
- the best non-African athletes were clean, for decades, while failing to run sub-27 and sub-13(*)
- the best non-African athletes were doped, for decades, while failing to run sub-27 and sub-13(*)
(*) There were some non-NOP and non-BTC sub-13 exceptions. Similarly we can say 1) they ran sub-13 clean, or 2) they ran sub-13 doped.
The presumption is that doping prevalence is high, even among the fastest runners.
For every criminal, deviously or unethical act, what you end up getting busted for is just the tip of the iceberg of what was done!
"what about Armstrong?" reflex (which itself is a myth because he actually failed 4 tests in 1999 for cortico-steroids and 6 urine tests in 1999 later tested positive for EPO -- making 10 failed tests from 1999 alone).
100% Correct!
AGAIN: No Salazar Athlete has ever failed a drug test. Never. Not once. Nada.
I hear the "Lance Armstrong also never failed a test" BS all the time by the "purity" police!
wazzu1452 wrote:
AGAIN: No Salazar Athlete has ever failed a drug test. Never. Not once. Nada.
Again. Not true. You must be new here.
drug drug wrote:
For every criminal, deviously or unethical act, what you end up getting busted for is just the tip of the iceberg of what was done!
That explains why so much of what you say appears to be fabricated.
With this logic, you can make up virtually any crime you want, while only possessing the tiniest tip of knowledge or reality.