drug drug wrote:
Google Jenny Simpson thyroid hormone
You’ll see it’s pretty obvious she used it
The question was if you had a link or a source. I think my previous assumption is safe.
Matt Hart's new Nike book is great - Salazar once tried to kiss Kara Goucher and said Solinsky ran 26:59 because of thyroid meds
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The question was if you had a link or a source. I think my previous assumption is safe. -
drug drug wrote:
The WSJ reports that American distance runners Ryan Hall, Galen Rupp, Amy Yoder Begley, Bob Kennedy, and Patrick Smyth have all acknowledged being treated for thyroid problems by Brown
Kennedy was on it
Acknowledge that!
The question was who was Kennedy's doctor. Was it Dr. Brown? Or was it an unnamed physician?
The WSJ says "Brown or unnamed other physicians".
With respect to performance enhancement, some firsthand testimony:
"Smyth, now retired, said the medication never enhanced his performance."
"Kennedy, now retired, said he never received performance benefits from hypothyroid medication." -
drug drug wrote:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2020/03/12/thyroid-function-in-athletes-and-dancers/
Are you making my point?
"Thyroxine is not on the World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) banned list, nevertheless as we shall discuss below, administering thyroxine to those with normal thyroid function potentially can have adverse consequences on health and performance." -
drug drug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/athletics/32120936
Jo Pavey "believes" and "fears".
I'm sure many athletes feel the same, but like many fans, have no real knowledge.
"The issue will be raised at the next World Anti-Doping Agency meeting.
UK Anti-Doping has already recommended to Wada that thyroxine should be banned."
WADA said -- "uncompelling". -
of the many many details in this NOP/Galen story--one thing I'll never get over is how one of the finest distance runners in the world is afflicted with so many serious health ailments.
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UK and US anti doping view thyroid hormone therapy as a PED and want it banned!
Fact! -
drug drug wrote:
UK and US anti doping view thyroid hormone therapy as a PED and want it banned!
Fact!
Are you sure that is a fact? Did UKAD and USADA really say PED?
Looks like their first concern was athlete health.
"Ukad formed the view, along with a number of other national anti-doping organisations, that thyroid medication, if used without a genuine medical need, is harmful to health."
That alone is not enough to ban it, so they added lawyer-like language, crafted to meet WADA's three critieria:
"It can be used in a manner which is contrary to the spirit of sport"
"in some circumstances, can be considered performance enhancing".
If that was their argument, it is not very compelling. There is ignorant based hope, but UKAD and USADA have not done their research.
Keep in mind that UKAD and USADA are made of lawyers, and administrators. They are not performance coaches, and all of their medical work is done by WADA accredited labs.
More facts:
- WADA found UKAD and USADA arguments uncompelling.
- You are relying on uncompelling arguments to support your own uncompelling position, while ignoring the expert views of the medical community -- some of which you provided.
- "Wada had consulted scientific and medical experts who "were unanimous in their view" that thyroid medication did not meet the criteria needed to ban it."
- ""All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing", Dr. Olivier Rabin, WADA’s Senior Director, Science, told the newspaper"
- "This (2016) is third year that Ukad have submitted a proposal for thyroid medication to be added to the prohibited list."
This was (at least) the THIRD time WADA considered thyroid hormone, and the medical experts were still "unanimous" in their view, and all of the experts concluded "there is no way" it "could be performance enhancing".
This third time failure looks like utter incompetence on the part of UKAD and USADA.
WADA also addressed the harm: "although it could be considered a risk for health if dosed improperly" while noting doses were likely small "if they were being used in small doses to increase thyroid hormone levels to normal high".
While I have aligned myself with WADA, and the unanimous view of scientific and medical experts, you are pathetically grasping at straws to uncompellingly argue thyroid hormone therapy as a PED. -
If you disagree with US and UK anti doping experts who want to ban thyroid hormone therapy because it is a PED and dangerous to the health when abused, then you have not aligned yourself with medical experts.
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If I agree with US and UK Anti-doping that thyroid hormone therapy is a PED and you think I am “grasping for straws”, you don’t understand what that means.
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drug drug wrote:
If you disagree with US and UK anti doping experts who want to ban thyroid hormone therapy because it is a PED and dangerous to the health when abused, then you have not aligned yourself with medical experts.
This assumes that USADA and UKAD consulted with medical experts before producing their uncompelling arguments.
Recall these facts:
- "Wada had consulted scientific and medical experts who "were unanimous in their view" that thyroid medication did not meet the criteria needed to ban it."
- "All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing", Dr. Olivier Rabin, WADA’s Senior Director, Science -
drug drug wrote:
If I agree with US and UK Anti-doping that thyroid hormone therapy is a PED and you think I am “grasping for straws”, you don’t understand what that means.
Do you have a reliable source with USADA and UKAD saying "thyroid hormone therapy is a PED"?
All I found was wishy-washy non-committal maybe language from UKAD:
"in some circumstances, can be considered performance enhancing" -
I just finished the book. Definitely a downer if you are concerned about doping in distance running. The author goes after the NOP like a Rottweiler. But sadly, I suspect much in the book is probably true. I would give 4 of 5 stars. Definitely recommended.
However, I do recommend the following changes before the book goes to paperback:
1) Page 133: "In November 1991, the Berlin Wall came down and thousands of previously confidential documents were uncovered by a German molecular biologist and professor..."
The documents may have been uncovered in 1991 but the Berlin Wall came down in November 1989.
2) Page 188: "In 1984 he (John Stiner) skipped his own college graduation to watch the US Olympic (Marathon) Trials in Buffalo, New York. He climbed a tree at the race's seventeen-mile mark and took a photo of the lead pack as they streamed past, a sweaty Cuban-American leading the effort."
Salazar was in the chase pack at 17 miles. Pete Pfitzinger had about a 100-yard lead at that point in the race.
3) Page 327: "In April, Hasay broke Kara's debut marathon record by running 2 hours 33 minutes at the Boston Marathon."
Hasay ran 2:23:00 in Boston in 2017. -
Freelance Editor wrote:
I just finished the book. Definitely a downer if you are concerned about doping in distance running. The author goes after the NOP like a Rottweiler. But sadly, I suspect much in the book is probably true. I would give 4 of 5 stars. Definitely recommended.
However, I do recommend the following changes before the book goes to paperback:
1) Page 133: "In November 1991, the Berlin Wall came down and thousands of previously confidential documents were uncovered by a German molecular biologist and professor..."
The documents may have been uncovered in 1991 but the Berlin Wall came down in November 1989.
2) Page 188: "In 1984 he (John Stiner) skipped his own college graduation to watch the US Olympic (Marathon) Trials in Buffalo, New York. He climbed a tree at the race's seventeen-mile mark and took a photo of the lead pack as they streamed past, a sweaty Cuban-American leading the effort."
Salazar was in the chase pack at 17 miles. Pete Pfitzinger had about a 100-yard lead at that point in the race.
3) Page 327: "In April, Hasay broke Kara's debut marathon record by running 2 hours 33 minutes at the Boston Marathon."
Hasay ran 2:23:00 in Boston in 2017.
I noticed some of the same errors, a few more, he states that Mary Slaney was a 10000 meter Olympian in '96 [she ran the 5000].
Jackie Areson did not win an NCAA outdoor 1500, she was an indoor champion.
Rupp does not hold the AJRs for 3000 and 5000 meters. His times were never ratified. -
Uncompelling: "not forceful, interesting, or persuasive"
Apparently you didn't get the memo, and you are not looking at all of the facts, nor at the latest facts.
In response to the question:
"members of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency and U.K. Anti-Doping ask the World Anti-Doping Agency to ban synthetic thyroid medication"
WADA said no:
"The LiEG still considered that they were not performance enhancing"
"it was concluded that there were no compelling arguments to add these substances to the prohibited list"
"Wada had consulted scientific and medical experts who "were unanimous in their view" that thyroid medication did not meet the criteria needed to ban it."
"All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing", Dr. Olivier Rabin, WADA’s Senior Director, Science
The difference is that WADA consulted scientific and medical experts.
The unanimous conclusion from all of these experts?:
"There is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing."
Not "this needs more study", but "no way to believe".
"No way to believe".
Apparently even you agreed to that when you showed us that:
"Thyroxine is not on the World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) banned list, nevertheless as we shall discuss below, administering thyroxine to those with normal thyroid function potentially can have adverse consequences on health and performance."
"One of the differences that thyroid replacement has from other forms of sports supplementation is that there is a clear peak point – normal thyroid function."
What do athletes who use thyroid hormone think? Once again, it was you who showed us:
"Smyth, now retired, said the medication never enhanced his performance."
"Kennedy, now retired, said he never received performance benefits from hypothyroid medication."
What do athletes who don't use thyroid hormone think? You also showed us:
They "believe" and they "fear". -
drug drug wrote:
https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20801265/do-many-u-s-distance-runners-have-thyroid-problems/
This article says Bob Kennedy was on thyroid hormone therapy.
Jenny Simpson was on it too.
If someone truly needs thyroid hormone therapy they need it for life. Their body simply doesn’t produce it.
Dr. Brown used an unusually high level for “normal level” for the athletes. Athletes would have been deemed healthy at any other doctor, were determined to be needing hormone therapy by Brown. Also, athletes unnecessarily depleted themselves before seeing him and were coached by Salazar on what to say in order to receive the drug.
Hormone therapy is administered with pills and injections. Many athletes have stated that Salazar used it in his athletes to raise testosterone, lower weight and recover from workouts.
This is clearly a very strong performance enhancer.
Just because WADA does not currently have the research findings to determine it a PED does not mean it does not work as a PED.
Salazar and Brown know more about its effects on distance runners than anyone in the world. They have been experimenting with it for decades. If it didn’t work, why did all the top athletes use it?
Or perhaps Schumacher knows as much if not more? -
WADA said there is no current evidence to justify banning it. They never claimed it did work as a PED.
US an Uk anti doping know it is being used successfully as a PED and sought to have banned.
It’s obviously going to eventually banned.
The list of PED dopers using it keeps growing and it is getting out of hand.
Now that a second Nike group is being implicated, with Solinski and Tegenkamp joining the list of cheats.
Jenny Simpson is obviously using it and had her reputation tarnished when she was interviewed about it and totally looked guilty as hell when trying to cover it up that she uses thyroid hormone therapy. -
drug drug wrote:
WADA said there is no current evidence to justify banning it. They never claimed it did work as a PED.
US an Uk anti doping know it is being used successfully as a PED and sought to have banned.
It’s obviously going to eventually banned.
The list of PED dopers using it keeps growing and it is getting out of hand.
Now that a second Nike group is being implicated, with Solinski and Tegenkamp joining the list of cheats.
Jenny Simpson is obviously using it and had her reputation tarnished when she was interviewed about it and totally looked guilty as hell when trying to cover it up that she uses thyroid hormone therapy.
On the contrary, WADA did say thyroid hormone was not performance enhancing:
"The LiEG still considered that they were not performance enhancing"
"There is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing."
On the contrary, USADA and UKAD don't really seem to know much about performance, and only considered it as a potential PED in limited circumstances:
"in some circumstances, can be considered performance enhancing".
Note Solinsky and Tegenkamp didn't cheat if no rules were broken.
And it is not obvious what Jenny's treatment was, if any. -
bannned i got wrote:
same thing on liberals on believing with fear that we all need to be locked down and wear masks
whats your take mr authority on all things medical wreckruiner....will a vaccine work against covid or will it just be a placebo affect?
We shouldn't listen to liberals or conservatives, but rather to infectious disease experts. We should have a leader setup a task force and come up with informed policy recommendations for the public.
Apparently the Pfizer vaccine is 90% effective, and other similar candidates are coming.
I can't predict the effect the vaccine will have on the fastest running performances for top athletes.
