How is Sweden doing with COVID-19 today?

SWEDEN TODAY

167 deaths - highest 7 day moving average 90 at Dec 20

5117 infected - highest 7 day moving average 7138 at Dec 23 4993 at Jan 12

Sweden is having terrible pandemic today. It's one of the deadliest countries in the world. An absolute bloodbath.

Before you spout more nonsense, I am in Sweden right now. There is no increase in hospitals than what would be typical during this period of the year. Any increase in deaths is likely due to lockdowns. Same criminal activity. It is the same in the US. Many hospitals are very quiet actually, same as what I saw in the US a month ago. The publicly available data you are posting is unverified. No independent observer would agree to this ridiculous data. Everyone seems to know this by now except you few loony birds.[/quote]

Since you are in Sweden now you can get todays report from (folkhaelsomyndigheten. se) Public Health Agency of Sweden at 2 o'clock. Can you please inform us how it is that they are unverfied, if so what are your sources? Can you name one independent observer that will not agree? You? BTW you sure can get todays swedish newpapers where you are. Or perhaps they are part of this conspiracy regarding the numbers too? You are probaly awake now in Sweden, so you can comment within an hour or so?[/quote]

Great to see another true believer. Keep the covid faith going bro. Who has verified folkhael? That sounds like another corrupted organization, which there is plenty of right now. This is the base of all your "truth"?? You must be joking??

Hey, why don't you send your data to that AIER team and let me knew how it goes? They will pick that information apart in a second.[/quote]

You are the first on this thread to dispute these numbers. And that tells a lot.

The Swedish Health Authorities "sounds like another corrupted organization" ? Can't you argue better than that?

But you are in Sweden now. In which region? You could just ask a swedish citizen to inform you. Why didn't you do that?

And why should these Bastiat-guys pick this information apart? They are not that stupid. Then they would be part of the laughing stock.

Your reliable sources about Covid in Sweden? Come on.

None of The Great Barrington-people have disputed the official Swedish numbers.

Flipper. wrote:

That sounds really great. Now give us actual proof that this is the case. Nobody cares about SVT or your hospital director. What is realized now is that anything given to you on MSM is full of S. Give the people proof that what you say is correct. But I know you can't. Do you know why? Because there is no extraordinary mortality issue that is going on in Sweden or anywhere else.

Your information is complete BS and everyone knows this by know other than you and your couple of troll friends.

I am the troll..

Errrr.. right...

So when parliament have public hearings on TV in Sweden (earlier this week), where politicians to the right (that would be the guys on the very right, Sverige Demokratarna, spun-out-of-neo-nazi -groups-right) and radical left are questioning different aspects of the swedish government's handling of the crisis, yet, not a single person are questioning the numbers on those live on tv hearings, that must be because they are all in on it!

Including the extreme right party!

Am I doing this correctly?

And when you have a website where each Län (region) INDEPENDENTLY report in their ICU occupancy numbers that's just part of the conspiracy as well...

And the above groups are in kahoots with every "mainstram" media outlet, be it socialist, liberal or conservative..

And since the conspiracy is so wide spread, they've obviously hired basically all employees in the health sector that have bothered to say anything too...

That's a given...

Got it!

I am the troll... I admit it!

My information is completely BS and everyone knows this by now other than me and a couple of troll friends!

Thanks for showing me the light, much appreciated!

I don't know what it would take to show you the light. You seem hopeless, and its sad. You've drunk the kool-aid so much that you are drunk with delusion.

Ah, the old "so you're saying that everyone is in on it, yea sure" deflection. Typically tool used by a good brainwashed robot that can't think for himself.

Ah, so no one has challenged the numbers in the Swede parliament. Wow. That could only mean that it's true! Right, so when all the leftist world MSM says the polar ice caps are melting and sea levels are rising dangerously and the Swedish parliament doesn't challenge the data then it must be true! The fisherman must be in on it too! Never mind that the sea hasn't risen a half inch since they started this panic over 20 years ago.

Right, so when the leftist MSM says that we are all white supremacists and the Swedish parliament doesn't challenge this information then it must be true! All white people are white supremacists and exist to take the black & brown man down! It must be true! Can't be otherwise, I mean all the governments are saying nothing in opposition so it must be true. You can't think they're all in on it?

Are you going to tell me next that the earth is flat? I mean no one in the Swedish parliament has challenged that? It must be true then? Or do you think everyone is on it?

Lmao "the official numbers are faked" is a very sane, non-troll, stance!

Keep em coming bro

Ok Flipper.

I'll bite.

Esssay time.

IF you had read my post, you would have deduced that I am claiming that a wide area of swedish sources, including institutions/people that are very much against the globalist agenda (so am I in many ways by the way) are not disputing swedish numbers.

Not just former neo-nazis in the parliament.

You say I am stupid to believe all these sources, yet fail to provide a single source for what you are claiming.

Impressive stuff Flipper!

As for your projections:

Yes, I absolutely do believe in global warming.

The evidence for that is overwhelming.

Never mind the science.

I suggest you take a trip to the arctic, antarctic, Siberia +++ and see for yourself if you are in doubt.

Or, if your are too lazy, just look at photos of glaciers in different parts of the world at different times.

They are quite revealing.

Now, I'd wager even you are not actually doubting that global warming is real (after all, even David Icke doesn't deny it's excistance: To quote him: "It's the bloody SUN!"), I am guessing that for you the real question is whether if it's caused by human activity or not.

On that question I have not made my mind up a 100%, but I find it EXTREMELY LIKELY.

As far as anecdotal evidence goes, where I live, the two highest measurements of sea level EVER have occured in the last 5 years..

Being a father, the tiny, tiny off chance that this is not human made isn't really important to me, as this is really an area where you prefer to error on the side of caution.

If the reasoning for that is hard to grasp, I don't know what else to do than point to Venus if you wonder what can happen if a planet is schorced by a greenhouse effect out of control.

As far as environment goes I am actually even more concerned that we are in the middle of the 6th mass extinction on earth (Living Planet Index is down 60% since 1970).

I also don't like that we treat nature as a gigantic waste dump.

This is of course also documented by science, as they now find micro plastic in the strangest of places, but again, I don't need to go further than very personal anecdotal evidence to see that it's real.

The amount of rubbish that floats into coves on the island where I live is just staggering compared to just 20 years ago.

If you can't see the huge issue we have if ecological system breaks down, I also can't help you...

As far as MSM goes, sure.. I read Guardian and a host of MSM news sites, (several to the right side of the middle)

I also appreciate your standard science sites.

BUT, since I am quite strange, sort of an information junkie, and definately appreciate different points of view, I also make sure I go to various more or less obscure places of the internet like Unherd, Grayzone and Corbett Report.

Heck, from time to time I even go to thedonald.win, inforwars.com and pandemic.warrom.org for research purposes.

Specifically I find how american conservatives manage to melt conspiracies and christianity the way that they do facinating.

I find their belief system to be something of an oxymoron, but I keep on trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Conspiracies are actually something of a hobby of mine, I've even admitted to on this site to believing some of them are real(!).

However, I tend to require significant amounts of objective data that makes sense when looking at them critically before believing in them...

Which brings me back to covid-19 and Sweden..

Even The Donald doesn't deny covid -9. (No further justification needed I should imagine?)

I CAN go down the science route, but many more clever people than I have done so in various threads on this site, so until you show any ability to process evidence that would be too tedious even for me..

As far as Sweden goes: parlamentarians, reserachers, health workers, news outlets and government government bodies are basically telling the same story.

There are no significant discrepancies in the stories being told!

And yet, I should believe your narrative with no other justification than you claiming to be in Sweden?

Sorry, unless you manage to produce more convincing evidence than the likes of Allen53 and Lead foil have attempted at various points, I doubt it will be successfull.

Feel free to try!

PS!

If you bother to read this thread (I wouldn't mind you, as it's quite a tedious read, even more so than this response), you'll find that I entered around page 20 and I have repeatedly said that I think covid-19 is a hype!

I very much stand by this view and have even argued quite hard for this to be the case if you compare them to other huge issues on this earth.

In fact, I consider this very much to be an overwhelmingly documented fact.

To my knowledge, I am the only one that is not an covidiot in this thread that holds that view.

I have to give you props for your reading list and commitment to viewpoint diversity!

I can only stomach the way-out-there folks (Grayzone, thedonald.win) for a few minutes!

2600 bro wrote:

I have to give you props for your reading list and commitment to viewpoint diversity!

I can only stomach the way-out-there folks (Grayzone, thedonald.win) for a few minutes!

Haha!

Thanks...

In my view it's rarely in the center where you find new ideas worth exploring, that even goes for science!

Thedonald is hard to be honest.. Very much cult like and I rarely survive for more than 15 minutes...

Personally I don't think it's fair to compare Grayzone to those guys.

They have some excellent coverage of whistleblowers, for instance the dirty game around the UK/US persecution of Assange that would never see the light of day in MSM outlets.

Always important to be aware of bias no matter what source!

SWEDEN TODAY

351 deaths reported. On Tuesday they tried to catch up after the holidays, So this is an exeption, even though they are still lagging substantially behind due the slow Swedish reporting.

210 of them for December. As far back as Dec 11.

Highest 7 day moving average 91 at Dec 21 and Dec 28. Dec 28 will definately rise, already tomorrow.

The rise in deaths is highest in the regions Västra Götaland (Gothenburg) 121 and Skåne (Malmo) 67. Not so in Stockholm 41 - so in the capital the worst seems to be over.

The number in ICU-beds, even though it is underreported, seems to trend downwards. And that is a good sign for Sweden.

A comparation:

Västra Götaland 1, 6 mill inhabitans 65 per quadratkilometer - 1560 reported deaths

Denmark 5,8 mill inhabitans 136 per quadratkilometer - 1371 - the deathtoll still rising 30 7 day moving average at jan 13.

In Sweden 2544 Covid deaths in April, so far in December 2476.

Infected 6580

Highest still at Dec 23 7138 Now 5215 at Jan 13. Trending downwards, another good sign.

Regarding whether the harm merited the response I am somewhat agnostic. In the US I think it could potentially save up to 6000000 life-years, or it could be as low as around 350000.. there is also a question as to whether you are addressing the nation as an individual or the world as a whole. Finally, I think it is clear that we COULD have had a much more effective, and cost-effective response.

To keep it simple, given Sweden's bizarre system of reporting (+3 yesterday, yet the overall total is all of a sudden way over 10,000):

Sweden, 10,154 deaths, 1002/million.

Denmark, 1660 deaths, 286/million

Finland, 610 deaths, 110/million

Norway, 508 deaths, 93/million

Norway and Finland have gone through a relatively bad period recently but their case #'s indicate that will probably be improving soon. Denmark's case #'s are higher but also coming well down. They may be out of the toughest period early next month. Sweden reported 6,600 cases yesterday. They admit they don't test enough. They're still going to be in trouble for awhile. If they have a lockdown with the new law in effect soon, they'll see big case improvements but deaths from all these cases in the past couple months will continue at a high level for some time.

xczvzxcv wrote:

To keep it simple, given Sweden's bizarre system of reporting (+3 yesterday, yet the overall total is all of a sudden way over 10,000):

Sweden, 10,154 deaths, 1002/million.

Denmark, 1660 deaths, 286/million

Finland, 610 deaths, 110/million

Norway, 508 deaths, 93/million

Norway and Finland have gone through a relatively bad period recently but their case #'s indicate that will probably be improving soon. Denmark's case #'s are higher but also coming well down. They may be out of the toughest period early next month. Sweden reported 6,600 cases yesterday. They admit they don't test enough. They're still going to be in trouble for awhile. If they have a lockdown with the new law in effect soon, they'll see big case improvements but deaths from all these cases in the past couple months will continue at a high level for some time.

Denmark is bracing for England strain though..

They expect it to drive transmission and come dominant by end of month, that's why they were not happy with recent reported R of 0,9..

They have now partially closed parliament which illustrate difference in response between swedish and danish policy makers..

The danes act, the swedes reacts...

I'd say Norway is more flat than anything else at 15-20% of sweden level in per capita..

In reality that number is even lower as percentage of positives are significantly lower too.

The fall/winter surge in Sweden is on track to be as bad as the Spring surge. This has simultaneously put to rest the failed herd immunity theory and the Greater Barrington theory of protecting the vulnerable and letting herd immunity build among the healthy.

Sweden now has a law allowing the government to enforce shutdowns. But Swedes are resisting claiming that it is too little too late and banking instead on the vaccination program (which is behind other Nordics).

Unless there is a big push by the government to shut down and get transmission down, I think Sweden is going to plateau and may even see new spike in infection over the winter. As seen in the US and EU, when you let the virus persist, it always will find a way to surge.

That's fair re: Grayzone. I just fine their China/Xinjiang apologia is just a bit hard to swallow - the evidence tilts firmly against them in that respect. TD.win is just a cult echo chamber - agreed, but there's some value (or schadenfreude) in seeing their take on events. It's hard to get anti-establishment editorialization without a hard slant, so you kinda just have to read both sides.

Budda wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

I have to give you props for your reading list and commitment to viewpoint diversity!

I can only stomach the way-out-there folks (Grayzone, thedonald.win) for a few minutes!

Haha!

Thanks...

In my view it's rarely in the center where you find new ideas worth exploring, that even goes for science!

Thedonald is hard to be honest.. Very much cult like and I rarely survive for more than 15 minutes...

Personally I don't think it's fair to compare Grayzone to those guys.

They have some excellent coverage of whistleblowers, for instance the dirty game around the UK/US persecution of Assange that would never see the light of day in MSM outlets.

Always important to be aware of bias no matter what source!

Precious Roy wrote:

The fall/winter surge in Sweden is on track to be as bad as the Spring surge. This has simultaneously put to rest the failed herd immunity theory and the Greater Barrington theory of protecting the vulnerable and letting herd immunity build among the healthy.

Sweden now has a law allowing the government to enforce shutdowns. But Swedes are resisting claiming that it is too little too late and banking instead on the vaccination program (which is behind other Nordics).

Unless there is a big push by the government to shut down and get transmission down, I think Sweden is going to plateau and may even see new spike in infection over the winter. As seen in the US and EU, when you let the virus persist, it always will find a way to surge.

As previously mentioned, and as evidenced by preliminary corona comission report in Sweden and Uppdrag Gransknings documentaries, Sweden didn't really have a strategy for protecting the vulnerable in the spring.

This is not my opinion, it's their own opinion.

In the fall they have done significantly better (relatively to spring) in protecting the old, but still, with how health care in Sweden is organized and their lacklustre effort in testing and tracing, saying that a theory of protecting the elderly has failed because of how Sweden has coped is STILL TO SIMPLISTIC (to use kind words)

Sweden behind Norway in vaccination?

Source, or it didn't happen!

Most countries in Europe currently have or have had higher peaks than spring.

This includes all other nordics by the way.

Yes, Sweden are doing worse than other nordics in this wave too, but relatively better than most other european countries, even if you limit it to just western european countries...

Heck, relative to Sweden, Denmark's peak is more than half...

Come on Prescious, you are a science guy. Stop portraying Sweden as a disaster area.

Stop having an agenda and try a balanced approach!

The situation is serious, yes, but relative to most of Europe, Not really.

There are just as many reasons to be cautiously optimistic as to assume they will have a new surge.

Peak infections was before christmas.

Peak ICU quite plausably was a week ago.. (at least it's the peak so far)

That would put peak deaths around now (given the lag in reporting)

They have had signifciant restrictions since november.

At the time, very similar to the other nordics..

Those restrictions have been adjusted.

The new pandemic law have passed.

VACCINATIONS ARE ONGOING...

Fecking sensationalism...

Precious Roy wrote:

As seen in the US and EU, when you let the virus persist, it always will find a way to surge.

Even this is too simplistic!

Have a look...

Evidence of what will happen in the future?

Obviously no.

Evidence that you can keep spread under control for significant amount of time with significant community spread?

YES...

As written in earlier post.

Have Sweden been too reactive? Obviously yes

Do they have a problem with Tegnell in charge? Obviously yes.

Despite the above they have infact coped better than most of Europe this wave.

That's also obvious.

While not as bad as the baseless propaganda from the covidiots, your post reeks of confirmation bias.

2600 bro wrote:

That's fair re: Grayzone. I just fine their China/Xinjiang apologia is just a bit hard to swallow - the evidence tilts firmly against them in that respect. TD.win is just a cult echo chamber - agreed, but there's some value (or schadenfreude) in seeing their take on events.

It's hard to get anti-establishment editorialization without a hard slant, so you kinda just have to read both sides.

Pretty much my take on things on Grayzone.

Still trust them more than most to dig up any dirt on any biased narrative being presented in western MSM than most other outlets.

Just need to keep in mind that they too are biased!

I'd love if Guardian (first page I visit every day) did what they should do in criticizing the powers that be, but they are weak on the heavy stuff...

Their environmental, UK politics and Soccer stuff is 2nd to none!

Haha.. Yes... DT.win is painful, enlightening and funny!

Budda wrote:

Sorry, unless you manage to produce more convincing evidence than the likes of Allen53

Did he get banned? I thankfully haven't seen him in forever (or dunes runner)