Brooks Ghost or Saucony Kinvara

Ran in the Kinvara 10s and liked them a lot. Only issue I had with them is that on my long run day I would sometimes feel like my legs were shot. The 11s have more cushioning though so that might not be an issue

for someone with achilles issues, the biggest difference is the drop. kinvara 4mm, ghost 12mm

in theory, more drop is easier on the achilles.

why wouldn't your options include the ride? at 8mm, it is right between the two.

Brooks Ghost for an everyday trainer. Both are good shoes. I used to run in the Ghost most runs and the Kinvara on my faster days. For me the Kinvara wouldn't be enough shoe for all my runs.

Easy choice, Brooks Ghost. It's a durable, well-cushioned trainer that's great for those with Achilles issues with a 12mm drop.

The Kinvara will wreck your Achilles if you use it everyday, it's much firmer and has only a 4mm drop. It's more of a fast trainer/ tempo day shoe, and won't last as long.

* stipe wrote:

for someone with achilles issues, the biggest difference is the drop. kinvara 4mm, ghost 12mm

in theory, more drop is easier on the achilles.

why wouldn't your options include the ride? at 8mm, it is right between the two.

I will consider the Ride.

Currently in the NB 1080 which also has an 8mm drop. I think I’ve been talked out of the Kinvara because of the drop and Achilles issue. I’m about 130lbs so less shoe is usually ok for me.

So either the Ride or Ghost?

Ghost for sure, Better for your achilles and a more comfortable shoe imo

Try the Pegasus 37.. Ghost was too much shoe for me... Kinvara is too low of drop for someone with Achilles issues.

Lot of weak achilleses on this board. Do you guys do any exercises for it or do you just run?

I've used the Kinvara 10 as a daily trainer. The drop bothered my lower calves a few times, but got used to them pretty soon. If I had Achilles issues, though, I might look into a different shoe or at least another higher drop model to rotate with the Kinvara.

It is a weird choice, though, Kinvara vs Ghost. I'd consider:

Kinvara vs Launch, if you want lighter and faster.

Ghost vs Ride, if you want cushion and protection from the ground. Even better, the current Mizuno Wave Rider.

I have both Launch 6 and Kinvara 10, and I think the Launch is better and more confortable, every bit as fast, has a smoother transition, better foot hold, way more durable, stable, and protective. Heavier, true, but well worth it imo.

I'm another Launch suggestor. The Ghost is great, and I love it for easy days. The Launch feels very similar and has about the same drop, but is a little lighter, firmer, and faster feeling.

I haven't tried the Kinvara because I know the low drop would only cause me problems.

Another good option is the freedom ISO - the Kinvara is more of an moderate run/up-tempo shoe that can be used for some tempos and longer intervals too, and the Ghost is just way too heavy for the average runner. The freedom ISO is light, fast, and cushioned enough to grind long runs and recovery mileage.

and the Ghost is just way too heavy for the average runner.

Ghost is 10.1

Ride is 9.7

Pegasus 10.0

The Ghost is not a heavy shoe. Best every day trainer I have used when I was running 80-90mph

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Another good option is the freedom ISO - the Kinvara is more of an moderate run/up-tempo shoe that can be used for some tempos and longer intervals too, and the Ghost is just way too heavy for the average runner. The freedom ISO is light, fast, and cushioned enough to grind long runs and recovery mileage.

Really? I found the Freedom to be way too firm (though the upper is lights out phenomenal).

I don’t get folks here saying that the Kinvara doesn’t have enough cushion. It’s not a high-stack marshmallow, but it’s plenty soft - much more so than the Peg 37, for instance. You just pay for the softness and lightness on durability, as they’re pretty smoked after 400 mi.

I do agree with the Launch suggesters here: solid and responsive shoe that’s less demanding of the Achilles.

Ghost shoes have been great in protecting my long-term Achilles injury. I didn't run much for years until I found Ghost shoes based on someone else's recommendation that they worked very well for runners nursing Achilles injuries. That advice was spot on, they're great! Never ran in Kinvara so I have no opinion on those shoes.

tycobb wrote:

and the Ghost is just way too heavy for the average runner.

Ghost is 10.1

Ride is 9.7

Pegasus 10.0

The Ghost is not a heavy shoe. Best every day trainer I have used when I was running 80-90mph

As someone who's been running since the late 70's, it seems kind of ridiculous that any training shoe in 2020 should be near-to or over 10 ounces (except perhaps one that's designed for maximum stability). I know that weight isn't the be-all, end-all, but I just don't understand how a major running shoe company can't manage to make all of their non-stability trainers well under 10 ounces. And it's good for them, but I also can't really understand how people buy 10 ounce training shoes when there are equivalent models that weigh ounces more.

Heaviness wrote:

tycobb wrote:

Ghost is 10.1

Ride is 9.7

Pegasus 10.0

The Ghost is not a heavy shoe. Best every day trainer I have used when I was running 80-90mph

As someone who's been running since the late 70's, it seems kind of ridiculous that any training shoe in 2020 should be near-to or over 10 ounces (except perhaps one that's designed for maximum stability). I know that weight isn't the be-all, end-all, but I just don't understand how a major running shoe company can't manage to make all of their non-stability trainers well under 10 ounces. And it's good for them, but I also can't really understand how people buy 10 ounce training shoes when there are equivalent models that weigh ounces more.

"....ounces LESS."

Ok the Kinvara is out. Enough posters have mentioned the drop and Achilles concerns.

I will consider the ghost or ride. I’ll look at the launch too.

Currently in the 1080 with an 8mm drop. Any concern about switching from and 8 to a 12 drop?

* stipe wrote:

for someone with achilles issues, the biggest difference is the drop. kinvara 4mm, ghost 12mm

in theory, more drop is easier on the achilles.

why wouldn't your options include the ride? at 8mm, it is right between the two.

I’ve had surgery (Haglunds) on both Achilles. I run in the Ride 8 with 3mm cork lifts - works perfect for me.

Also, I used to run in the Ghost and it’s predecessor but switched to the Ride after fracturing my vertebrae. Too much heel striking on LSD runs in the Ghost