COVID cases jumped in September. Now COVID deaths are climbing in October. Who could have predicted that???

styi wrote:No, asshole. In a civilized society, the one who presents danger to others is the one who loses freedom of movement: stays home, or goes to jail, or loses his/her license.

Imagine believing that millions of people going about their daily business while not being sick are a danger to others and should be quarantined.

We can all agree that people who are actually sick and infectious should stay home. Healthy people should be free to go on with their lives.

There is no good reason to lockdown the vast, vast majority of people who don't have the virus. In fact, as we have seen from the last six months, it's counterproductive to the overall health and well-being of society to focus on cv-19 as the be-all, end-all of public health. Even the World Health Organization has come to see the light.

Some perspective wrote:

1 in 10 people in 19th century America died of smallpox . . .

Interesting. Truly. Source? Not arguing here, just curious: I thought vaccination in the U.S. was fairly widespread in the 1800s, but I could be wrong.

Now I could easily believe that *tuberculosis* killed something like 10% of Americans in the 1800s (but I don't happen to have a source for that either).

formerly present wrote:

Some perspective wrote:

1 in 10 people in 19th century America died of smallpox . . .

Interesting. Truly. Source? Not arguing here, just curious: I thought vaccination in the U.S. was fairly widespread in the 1800s, but I could be wrong.

Now I could easily believe that *tuberculosis* killed something like 10% of Americans in the 1800s (but I don't happen to have a source for that either).

First paragraph of article. Sources are listed below article.

styi wrote:

[quote]browski wrote:

So what? If you are scared, stay home.

No, if you don't want to act like a decent human being, YOU stay home--and let the people who actually realize that their actions can affect others, be the ones who can move freely.

Does it not strike you as nonsense that healthy people who are not running a temperature nor sneezing or coughing are somehow killing people by going outside and walking around?

It should.

You have been bamboozled. There is a reason the media is pushing covid 24/7, using scary words, huge numbers, scary stories, and scary pics. It's because the lie they are pushing is such nonsense. They need to lay it on thick and constantly.

styi wrote:

browski wrote:

So what? If you are scared, stay home.

No, if you don't want to act like a decent human being, YOU stay home--and let the people who actually realize that their actions can affect others, be the ones who can move freely.

"Sure, I drink and drive! I'm an adult and I think I'm actually a *better* driver after I've had a few: more relaxed and less tentative! And if I'm wrong about that, well, I'm the only one who'll be hurt!

"What? You say I have the potential to hurt *other* people if I drink and drive? Well, if they're afraid they should just stay home and not drive at all!"

No, asshole. In a civilized society, the one who presents danger to others is the one who loses freedom of movement: stays home, or goes to jail, or loses his/her license.

Your logic is asinine, asiten, and asieleven.

A sober person is just as capable of killing another while operating a vehicle. Does this mean across the board prohibition of motorized vehicles, no. No, because you are an adult and that means making decisions. Your determination on whether to behave responsibly should not depend on legality.

It’s always hip to see things that are legal become synonymous with good.

It's almost as if deaths ebb and flow in predictable monthly patterns, year in and year out...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6826a5.htm

Concerned Senior wrote:

An Unstable Genius: We're rounding the turn ! Equals Negligent Homicide

You're part of the problem, pointing the finger at a President, any President. NO President was going to stop this virus, NOT ONE! We are all in control of our own actions. Biden would have done what? Hillary would have done what? They both said just the opposite as did Pelosi. None of them could have stopped this but it makes good political pun to point the finger.

Wear a mask or don't. Go out in public or don't. Don't put your hands by your mouth, nose or eyes or do it and risk a virus invasion. How do you think you catch the flu?

Stranger Danger! wrote:

It's almost as if deaths ebb and flow in predictable monthly patterns, year in and year out...

Yes, it's ALMOST like that.

Except that THIS year, something like a quarter-million Americans (beyond the *upper* statistical bound of what might be expected, based on previous years) have died.

So THIS year it's "almost as if" the United States has been experiencing an epidemic, the likes of which we haven't seen for a century...rather than following "predictable monthly patterns."

Some perspective wrote:

Johnny Football's wrote:

The minority of posters here who actually run would like to avoid permanent lung and/or cardiovascular damage.

*irrelevant bs*

Truly pathetic

What does any of your blabbing have to do with running? Truly pathetic indeed.

Johnny Football's wrote:

Some perspective wrote:

*irrelevant bs*

Truly pathetic

What does any of your blabbing have to do with running? Truly pathetic indeed.

You’re willing to shutdown society & abdicate freedoms because there is a <1% chance COVID could effect your running.

There I tied running back in.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

First paragraph of article. Sources are listed below article.

https://sites.wp.odu.edu/19thcenturymedicine/sub-topic-1/

Thank you!

Dr. Peter Hotez predicted a fall/winter surge and proposed a plan on July 31, 2020 to contain the virus so that the US would be able to get through the fall/winter without having a massive outbreak. His recommendations were completely ignored. Now, El Paso is shipping patients over 500 miles to San Antonio because the hospitals are overrun with COVID 19 patients. North Dakota public health officials are so overwhelmed with cases that they are telling COVID positives to do their own contact tracing. Hospitals are at capacity in WI, ND, SD, UT, with hospitalization rates increasing at an alarming rate in TX, TN, and WY with many states close behind. And nothing is being done to stop the outbreak. All of this suffering was 100% avoidable had we listened to the experts. Now, all the COVID deniers can do is make ghoulish arguments about how the deaths are just X % of Y. But as our health systems become overwhelmed, the success our emergencists have had in improving care for COVID patients will evaporate due to lack of resources (staffing mostly) and fatality rates will soar. That would not have happened had we listened to the experts.

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/dr-peter-hotez-argues-federal-coordination-covid19-response

No, if you don't want to act like a decent human being, YOU stay home--and let the people who actually realize that their actions can affect others, be the ones who can move freely.

How about you act like a decent human being by accepting that being a human involves the risk of getting sick, and that imprisoning innocent healthy people (be it inside their homes or inside masks) is an immoral and antidemocratic thing to do?

Had we NOT listened to the experts and their sycophants like you starting back in May, we would not have this problem. Quarantine the elderly and obese with comorbidities, mandate essential stores like Costco to have separate hours for those cohorts, and, otherwise, let everyone else get on with life and churn through this thing when it was still warm out and hospital beds were mostly EMPTY for five friggin months.

People could’ve gotten outside, had significant vit D exposure, and built up immunity, thereby making us ALL safer. But, no, your governors wanted mask mandates, hybrid shutdowns, and very little in person school for our kids. Meanwhile our kids and university students are mostly unaffected. Heck, football season is carrying on without incident. Positives here and there, big deal. None of those big lineman are getting significantly ill.

We could’ve been through this. We could’ve saved many small businesses and not thrown away a year of educating our kids. As it is, the policies you promoted will ensure more deaths, in addition to those related to mental health, domestic abuse, and drug related issues. A double whammy with flu season now. You are right... people needing emergent care for other reasons will now go without.

By the way, easily obtainable and cheap valgancyclovir treats this just as effectively as all of the heavy duty drugs. Much circumstantial evidence, but no mainstream scientific journals want to pick it up. You are all responsible for the wave of death, if it comes. But keep telling yourself how much good you’ve done for society as businesses are gone for good and suicides have increased in my community.

Stranger Danger! wrote:

It's almost as if deaths ebb and flow in predictable monthly patterns, year in and year out...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6826a5.htm

It's almost as if that is even remotely relevant to the topic of the thread...

No. Just kidding. It really isn't even remotely relevant. Care to try again?

formerly present wrote:

Stranger Danger! wrote:

It's almost as if deaths ebb and flow in predictable monthly patterns, year in and year out...

Yes, it's ALMOST like that.

Except that THIS year, something like a quarter-million Americans (beyond the *upper* statistical bound of what might be expected, based on previous years) have died.

So THIS year it's "almost as if" the United States has been experiencing an epidemic, the likes of which we haven't seen for a century...rather than following "predictable monthly patterns."

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

This ^

After reading this message board, seeing the divide between lockdowners & non-lockdowners & just the general divide on how to handle COVID I say the two sides just fight it out.

If the lockdown crowd wants to keep people locked down & masked— you’ll have to make them by force. If the non-lockdown crowd wants to move freely as before and be maskless you’ll have to fight for it.

Concerned Human Being about you! wrote:

Concerned Senior wrote:

An Unstable Genius: We're rounding the turn ! Equals Negligent Homicide

You're part of the problem, pointing the finger at a President, any President. NO President was going to stop this virus, NOT ONE! We are all in control of our own actions. Biden would have done what? Hillary would have done what? They both said just the opposite as did Pelosi. None of them could have stopped this but it makes good political pun to point the finger.

Wear a mask or don't. Go out in public or don't. Don't put your hands by your mouth, nose or eyes or do it and risk a virus invasion. How do you think you catch the flu?

Any president that took the issue seriously and didnt politicize it would have done a better job. Imagine if for example George Bush had treated 9/11 the Trump has treated this virus 'oh its a hoax by the democrats to make me look bad' etc.. Bush was pretty well hated by a good portion of the country but yet he found a way to actually unite people and boost the morale of the country. The president had an opportunity to unite the country and basically seal the deal on a second term, especially with the clown show that was the DNC primary. He completely blew it and now you Trumpsters are going increasingly off the rails.

Indeed he did, and every legitimate public health/infectious disease expert said basically the same.