how to train for fast mile as an adult-onset runner with no track background

What is your goal and what can you do right now?

Paul2432 wrote:

What is your goal and what can you do right now?

First of all: this ^

Second: (Assuming that the rest isn't too long (2 minutes or less)) If you can run 4x800m at a given pace, then you can run a mile at a faster pace than that.

Third: Your approach is okay but it's not optimal. As I understand it, your only running fast one day per week. This should be 2 or 3 days a week. One of those could/should be a long(er) run at a pace that isn't necessarily fast, but it shouldn't be easy.

Fourth: What the heck are you doing the other six days of the week? That's pretty important.

4 x 800 is not a good peak mile workout for you. Definitely not on your first mile buildup. 4 x 800 is more of a 2 mile-pace workout.

My goal is very modest by LRC standards. I know how LRC works. If I say what my goal and current PR are, then this thread will devolve into everyone laughing about how easily they could hit that time with both feet tied behind their neck. So I just want to get some training method/system advice, not give people yet another thread to gloat about their superior talent. I know I'm slow. I know I'm untalented. I just want some advice on how to best achieve my personal potential at the mile at my current age.

Excellent, this is the kind of specific advice I'm looking for. What kind of workout should I be working towards that once I can do it would mean I'm prepared to attempt a mile at my goal pace? 8x400m at goal pace? 3x800m at goal pace? 4x800m at 5 seconds per lap slower than goal pace? 2x1200m?

I'm doing once a week primarily because I'm not sure I can do more without getting injured. For the rest of the week, I run 24 miles (speed workout is 6 miles, so 30 miles total for the week) plus ride my bike on the indoor trainer for about 3 hours. One of my weekly bike rides is a 2 x 20 minutes hard interval, but if I skip any workout during the week it's usually that one. And a couple of approximately 45 minute strength workouts which often get shortened or skipped. Weekend long run is 12 miles, usually on very hilly trails, so it can take more than 3 hours. Or if I run it on mostly flat roads it takes about 2 hours.

So while I'm only running fast once a week, I'm supposed to have a second intense workout every week on the bike. My impression was that the weekend long run was supposed to be about getting in mileage and building aerobic base rather than pushing speed or running faster than aerobic threshold.

Overall, you have two choices: Find a specific plan and following it in a disciplined manner, or keep doing what your doing with one workout of your choice per week and hope for the best. The first option will be better for a specific goal.

Here's a good plan:

5x400 at mile pace with 60s between reps is a decent mile indicator/predictor.

4x (5x200 at mile pace, 60s rest between reps) 3 min. rest between sets gives you short reps to get used to running faster but also has a lot of reps to help endurance.

Have you considered just following the mile plan in Jack Daniel's running formula? It'll give you an exact plan and everything else you'd need to know about running and training. It's not free like letsrun advice but if you're serious about your goal the book is well worth the investment.

try daniels wrote:

Have you considered just following the mile plan in Jack Daniel's running formula? It'll give you an exact plan and everything else you'd need to know about running and training. It's not free like letsrun advice but if you're serious about your goal the book is well worth the investment.

Agreed. Pick up a copy of Daniels. His mile plan is good, but the background information on training is invaluable.

You want to do some quality aerobic running. 20-30 min of tempo running 1x/week or so would be the goal. You are running low volume so you need some intensity. You are also slow enough that you might want to think about doing 300s instead of 400s. And definitely don't try that 4x800m workout at mile pace. Want to do that at 3k/5k pace? Sure it is an ok workout.

Personally I would drop the 2 hour long run. That is excessive for milers and the fatigue you get from it just isn't worth it. Do a 60-90 min run and call it a day.

Realistically I notice you take a lot about goal pace. But the pace that matters is what you are running today. Go the track every 4 weeks and do some time trials (800m, 1600m, 3200m) and base your workouts off that instead of imaginary times. You could be trying to do 8x400 at 800m pace for all we know.

what is your genes like? If you are naturally a long distance athlete then you should not run long enough for your ACE gene to introducing its L, but you will at the same time have to be careful about your intervals. Don't run your rests to hard. Do shorter intervals with higher speed than mile time, some little bit longer intervals at goal pace and easy cruise intervals or shorter tempo work

also keep your easy runs short. If endurance is your weakness then do longer easy runs and longer tempos or cruise intervals. That way you will gain more capillaries

HLq wrote:

Paul2432 wrote:

What is your goal and what can you do right now?

My goal is very modest by LRC standards. I know how LRC works. If I say what my goal and current PR are, then this thread will devolve into everyone laughing about ...

I had let this pass, but the title of this thread is

HLq said:how to train for fast mile as an adult-onset runner with no track background

So you're asking how to train for a fast mile. Luckily for you, an "adult-onset runner with no track background" would train for a fast mile just the same as a middle schooler or high schooler or college student or anyone else.

Also luckily for you, a fast mile isn't relative to you. So you don't need to worry about your current goal not being fast. If you want to train for a fast mile then you're going to need to do the same things as everyone else.

Based on your hesitation to even share your current goal, it seems like you're going to have to put in a lot of work to train for a slow mile before you train for a fast mile.

But... you can get there. You can get to the point where you start training for a fast mile.

Here's basic, straightforward non-elite mile training, approx 30 mpw (since that's OP's mileage)

Run 1-mi time trial, then

Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri - 5 miles easy

Wed - 2 mi warmup, 20 min tempo, 4 x 100m sprint with 3-5 minutes standing rest

Sat - 1 mi warmup, 4 x 100m strides, 8 x 400m w/ 400m jog recovery. Do these repeats 1-3 sec faster than most recent TT (not lifetime PR pace, not goal pace)

Sun off

Run a mile TT every 4 weeks and recalculate your 8 x 400m pace.

Taper and sharpen for key race when appropriate.

Thank you all for the advice.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

Here's basic, straightforward non-elite mile training, approx 30 mpw (since that's OP's mileage)

Run 1-mi time trial, then

Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri - 5 miles easy

Wed - 2 mi warmup, 20 min tempo, 4 x 100m sprint with 3-5 minutes standing rest

Sat - 1 mi warmup, 4 x 100m strides, 8 x 400m w/ 400m jog recovery. Do these repeats 1-3 sec faster than most recent TT (not lifetime PR pace, not goal pace)

Sun off

Run a mile TT every 4 weeks and recalculate your 8 x 400m pace.

Taper and sharpen for key race when appropriate.

I would argue for doing 1 day where your run 70-90 mins (monday) which is probably more like 7-8 miles and with the 400s cutting the rest down to 200m (more like 90s instead of 3 mins) but yeah that is the basic plan for a person who isn't an experienced miler. After you do this for like 12 weeks you can talk about switching it up but at a high level, you just need to start getting some time where you are running at around mile pace.