In the following article, it is written that the athlete completes an 8 x 400 'fartlek' with 200m recovery in almost the same time as her 5km.
Has anybody tried this? Since people don't run a 5km like this, presumably it is not possible for most people. But is it a reasonably good predictor session in general? It must presumably be close to a race-like effort?
That's not a fartlek workout. Not sure why they would call it that.
This is just Deek's (Aussie) quarters. I've found that its pretty damn close as far as a 5K predictor.
Theoretically you will run the workout (4800m) in about the time you would race 5000m. Great workout IMO and always within 10-15 seconds of actual 5K race times (in my case).
five_km_as_fartlek wrote:
But is it a reasonably good predictor session in general? It must presumably be close to a race-like effort?
I'd say no and no. It's not a race-like effort, and it would be a terrible predictor session, because the harder you run the 400s, the slower you run overall
Not quite the same, but we used to do "70-90" quarters. The idea was to run a 400 in 70, then followed by one in 90. Most of my teammates would usually go 4 miles like this. I usually had to do 2 miles, take a break, then do the last two.
One day back in JC times, we had a meet against a team without much of a distance squad, so our coach had us run 70-90s during the 5k. I finished in 16:40 (which is exactly the time you'd expect from the workout). It felt really, really hard.....pretty much like an all out race. My PR at the time was in the very low 16's.
Hardloper wrote:
five_km_as_fartlek wrote:
But is it a reasonably good predictor session in general? It must presumably be close to a race-like effort?
I'd say no and no. It's not a race-like effort, and it would be a terrible predictor session, because the harder you run the 400s, the slower you run overall
Its only a good predictor if you run them correctly (400s should be at 3-5secs/lap faster than 5K pace, 200s should be no slower than marathon map).
marathon *pace
chickenlegsmc wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
I'd say no and no. It's not a race-like effort, and it would be a terrible predictor session, because the harder you run the 400s, the slower you run overall
Its only a good predictor if you run them correctly (400s should be at 3-5secs/lap faster than 5K pace, 200s should be no slower than marathon map).
That's why it's a terrible predictor workout. You're saying it only "works" if you already know your 5K pace prior to the workout.
Don't you go into any workout with some idea of what your 5K pace should be? Whether or not you can finish that workout will tell you whether you have any business running at that pace. I don't know of any workout where you just go out and wing it (aside from a TT). I could be wrong. I'm genuinely curious.
Hardloper wrote:
chickenlegsmc wrote:
Its only a good predictor if you run them correctly (400s should be at 3-5secs/lap faster than 5K pace, 200s should be no slower than marathon map).
That's why it's a terrible predictor workout. You're saying it only "works" if you already know your 5K pace prior to the workout.
WHAT!? How do you think people make their paces for workouts in general if they have no idea what their race pace is??
chickenlegsmc wrote:
Don't you go into any workout with some idea of what your 5K pace should be? Whether or not you can finish that workout will tell you whether you have any business running at that pace. I don't know of any workout where you just go out and wing it (aside from a TT). I could be wrong. I'm genuinely curious.
In a typical predictor type workout such as 4 x 1 mile or 8 x 1k, you can just run it based on effort, and the resulting average would be a good indicator of 5k pace.
Hardloper wrote:
chickenlegsmc wrote:
Don't you go into any workout with some idea of what your 5K pace should be? Whether or not you can finish that workout will tell you whether you have any business running at that pace. I don't know of any workout where you just go out and wing it (aside from a TT). I could be wrong. I'm genuinely curious.
In a typical predictor type workout such as 4 x 1 mile or 8 x 1k, you can just run it based on effort, and the resulting average would be a good indicator of 5k pace.
The 1990s would like their training plan back.
Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
In a typical predictor type workout such as 4 x 1 mile or 8 x 1k, you can just run it based on effort, and the resulting average would be a good indicator of 5k pace.
The 1990s would like their training plan back.
I didn't post a training plan. 8 x 1k at 5k pace with 400 jog is a good workout towards the peak of a season.
Hardloper wrote:
Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:
The 1990s would like their training plan back.
I didn't post a training plan. 8 x 1k at 5k pace with 400 jog is a good workout towards the peak of a season.
I beg to differ. The recovery interval is too long and there is no need to run that many reps inducing significant mechanical stress. You are not doing anything to simulate the onset of fatigue in racing. This also neglects teaching the body to utilize lactate as fuel or to efficiently clear the excess hydrogen ions from your bloodstream while moving at racing velocities. That 400m / 2 minute recovery allows you to do this completely through oxidative processes. The trouble is, you don't Gallowalk a 5K race. It's old school training.
Earlier season workout with surges at goal pace for later in season I think
This workout is known as Deek's Quarters -- you're running 8 x 400m @ ~ 3k pace, while trying to hit marathon type pace on the recoveries. For 4800m of work you get a time that might indicate your straight 5k time.
I've done this workout. It burns the same way a 5k race does. Really good race prep. I was 10 seconds slower through 4800 than what I ran my 5k in. Went out a touch too hard in the first few reps. Evenly paced on raceday.
Thank you very much to all, this is very helpful, especially knowing the name of it and the clarification that it is the time at the end of 4800m that is supposed to be roughly equal to the 5km time.
It strikes me that this workout seems an extraordinarily good predictor. It is do-able, and yet, if one were to run an additional 200m at 5km pace, one would be within 30-40s (for sub 16:45 or so) or 40 - 50s (for 16:45 - 20:00 or so) of one's race 5km time. One cannot come so close even with a crazy workout like 5 x 1km at 5km pace with 30s jog rest. I doubt if there is any do-able workout which could come closer.
Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
I didn't post a training plan. 8 x 1k at 5k pace with 400 jog is a good workout towards the peak of a season.
I beg to differ. The recovery interval is too long and there is no need to run that many reps inducing significant mechanical stress. You are not doing anything to simulate the onset of fatigue in racing. This also neglects teaching the body to utilize lactate as fuel or to efficiently clear the excess hydrogen ions from your bloodstream while moving at racing velocities. That 400m / 2 minute recovery allows you to do this completely through oxidative processes. The trouble is, you don't Gallowalk a 5K race. It's old school training.
Funny, I didn't mention the recovery interval in the first post, which seems to be your main beef. But sure, would 5-6 x 1k with 1' or 200m jog be more like it?
You're just replacing one predictor with another,
Hardloper, you got owned. Then you doubled-down by giving the lame "effort" excuse. You can run the quarters on effort too. Of course everyone has an idea of pace before a "predictor" workout. Then you either hit it or run faster or slower, and adjust accordingly. Seriously, unlike the orange compulsive liar that you worship, can't you admit when you said something wrong? Among intelligent adults, it's ok, even appreciated, if you say something like "oh, fair enough, good point." We won't think less of you for it. It's now a show of weakness.
Hardloper wrote:
chickenlegsmc wrote:
Don't you go into any workout with some idea of what your 5K pace should be? Whether or not you can finish that workout will tell you whether you have any business running at that pace. I don't know of any workout where you just go out and wing it (aside from a TT). I could be wrong. I'm genuinely curious.
In a typical predictor type workout such as 4 x 1 mile or 8 x 1k, you can just run it based on effort, and the resulting average would be a good indicator of 5k pace.