Ted Talk(er) claims that high level distance running causes early death.

Hi YMMV,

I've seen you post a lot regarding low-carb training. I've been a fat-based athlete for 7-years, previously bodybuilding, later CrossFit. I started running a little less than 2 years ago. As a reference, these are some PBs achieved during this period:

- Half: 1:28

- 5K: 19:45

- Mile: 5:29

I currently periodize between completely carnivore to higher-carb depending on the phase of training and the nature of the race. For instance, base building with 2 or less weekly workout runs doesn't require any exogenous glucose whereas peaking for a 5K/10K benefits greatly from supplementing with carbs, especially for two-a-days.

In the former, glycogen repletion is really not a problem. Forcing the body to be dependent on endogenous glucose and suppressing insulin also helps to widen the bandwidth of intensity possible with significant fat metabolism, benefiting the aerobic base. For shorter distance races with more glycolytic training, chronic carb loading helps to re-shift the respiratory quotient closer toward 1, upregulate pyruvate dehydrogenase, support more frequent workouts, etc.

My point is that I’m not exclusively carb nor fat based, but do understand much of your rhetoric on this forum and have experienced much of the benefits you talk about.

Recently, I've also successfully dialed in protocols for ketone esters, bicarbonate, etc. Without going into too much right now, would you be interested in discussing privately to share some notes? If so, please PM me or email me at

davisxcc@outlook.com

.

Davis

I don’t run for my health. I wanna get fast and look skinny AF. I ain’t no poser.

LongLifer wrote:

Why do we all pretend that living the longest is the ultimate goal?

DING DING DING!!! I don't run/train to live longer. I run/train because I enjoy it. Would much rather live a shorter, more fulfilling life than a longer, less fulfilling life.

All the exercise "dosing" studies are garbage because they never get statistically significant numbers of faster runners to participate in the studies. And often the group that is considered to be running an excessive amount of miles is people running 40 mpw, regardless of how fast they are. So you either have something like 30,000 people in the 20-25 mpw group and 500 in the 50+ mpw group or a 20-25 mpw group and a 30-40 mpw group with no effort to separate out fast and slow runners.

Of course, these 'researchers" are really just pandering to the fitness industry and the current fitness fads. Billions are being spent on crossfit, personal trainers and gym memberships for people trying to get an instagram worthy body. Add to that the billions on diet programs like keto, caveman, etc. and you have a big economic incentive to produce research supporting strength training over cardio and low carb over high carb.

Pr4fontain4 wrote:

Thoughts? Is this guy just a sissy? Do you believe his findings? If so, do you care?

Not watching the video, nor searching for the links, but the idea that high mileage leads to premature death or even heart damage has been debunked several times in recent years. There have been many threads on this.

On an anecdotal level, nearly every Olympic finalist from 800m up over the last 100 years have survived into their 80's (or are still alive if younger) - well above the average life expectancy when they were born. Exceptions being a few East Africans and Soviet bloc athletes (likely doping or poor medical care, alcoholism etc.).

Precis of the new attitude, as per Amby Burfoot, who talks with O'Keefe: 5 hours running a week is fine, not just 2 1/2 hrs. New studies show 1) a 2:1 to 4:1 ratio of how much vigorous to moderate exercise you need for the same benefits, 2) arrythmias are actually reduced and almost eliminated during marathons themselves, 3) even with ten times as much running as for joggers, there were no overall harms associated, even though the healthiest in a large study of 600,000 from age 62 to 76.5 on average, where, I think, 116,000 died in the period, were those who ran moderately.

Been known for a long time since early death of 60s high mileage runners... too much aerobic system ability / use creates micro tears on vesicles near heart. Also just uses your heart too much... the guy in the vid looks like a liar, he didn’t come up with this.

who cares? we're all going to die of something, might as well do something you enjoy so the life you live is happy

Because people somehow believe they are immortal. Life is inherently dangerous but we are supposed to ignore the fact that we all die. The COVID hysteria is a perfect example of how entitled we have become. The lockdown Nazis subconsciously are fighting their own mortality and the fact that they never actually lived.

Asking weird questions wrote:

What is bad about ultras besides the bearded guys?

The bearded women?

Background

Long-term marathon running improves many cardiovascular risk factors, and is presumed to protect against coronary artery plaque formation. This hypothesis, that long-term marathon running is protective against coronary atherosclerosis, was tested by quantitatively assessing coronary artery plaque using high resolution coronary computed tomographic angiography (CCTA) in veteran marathon runners compared to sedentary control subjects.

Methods

Men in the study completed at least one marathon yearly for 25 consecutive years. All study subjects underwent CCTA, 12-lead electrocardiogram, measurement of blood pressure, heart rate, and lipid panel. A sedentary matched group was derived from a contemporaneous CCTA database of asymptomatic healthy individuals. CCTAs were analyzed using validated plaque characterization software.

Results

Male marathon runners (n = 50) as compared with sedentary male controls (n = 23) had increased total plaque volume (200 vs. 126 mm3, p < 0.01), calcified plaque volume (84 vs. 44 mm3, p < 0.0001), and non-calcified plaque volume (116 vs. 82 mm3, p = 0.04). Lesion area and length, number of lesions per subject, and diameter stenosis did not reach statistical significance.

Conclusion

Long-term male marathon runners may have paradoxically increased coronary artery plaque volume.

Carotid surgery wrote:

Conclusion

Long-term male marathon runners may have paradoxically increased coronary artery plaque volume.

True, but any association with increased mortality has not yet been demonstrated.

Reading this really ground my gears! It was a great talk though, and O'Keefe makes great points. Walking over running all the way for health.

I read the referenced article, but I can't see the details of the participant selection. Dr. O'Keefe references alcohol having a similar dose dependent response. I've looked into that as well, and the generalization seems confounded rather than causational. Who drinks 1-2 drinks occasionally? Really disciplined, wealthy, healthy individuals. It's very possible the same is true for running--who runs 15 miles a week? The same WEIRD (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, And Democratic) people. Personally, I'm sacrificing my career development and pursuing running fast while I'm still young. Just saying, it could definitely be confounded.

Coevett wrote:

Pr4fontain4 wrote:

Thoughts? Is this guy just a sissy? Do you believe his findings? If so, do you care?

Not watching the video, nor searching for the links, but the idea that high mileage leads to premature death or even heart damage has been debunked several times in recent years. There have been many threads on this.

On an anecdotal level, nearly every Olympic finalist from 800m up over the last 100 years have survived into their 80's (or are still alive if younger) - well above the average life expectancy when they were born. Exceptions being a few East Africans and Soviet bloc athletes (likely doping or poor medical care, alcoholism etc.).

I doubt high mileage will lead to heart/CV problems and premature death. However, what it will lead to as you age, particulary if you're not build for running and have poor biomechanics, is musculoskeletal degenerative changes and osteoarthritis. So, this is destructive if you're a heavier runner who has run high mileage for decades.

I'm on the short side of 60 and pretty done with any type of serious running because of post-traumatic osteoarthritis due to some serious tendon & ligament ruptures over the past years. Never was built for distance running - played college football & did sprints. After college, did another 10 yrs of competitive powerlifting & bodybuilding before transitioning to distancing running. I did about 12 yrs of high-mileage & marathons before the roof caved in. Now I need those gym & fitness memberships that "Precious Roy" mentioned. Lol.

You have almost to be built like Ed Whitlock to run high mileage and do marathons in middle-age. He didn't seem to have heart or CV problems and lived a good life right into his 80s before succumbing to prostate cancer. IMO, the heart can withstand high mileage but not so much with the musculoskeletal system.

***Warning***- This post includes: religion, politics, cultural disdain, and Pure Hate, but nothing about bun-huggers.

Ted Talks are for the people who like simple solutions to Life's hard truths by attracting people who have limited attention spans by using speakers who seem to know what they're talking about. However, in reality these short presentations use a combination of science, self-help jargon, and PowerPoint persuasion to push their narrow agenda without having to face any questions or criticisms from their listeners.

Better to die of a massive heart attack at 66 while running than spend the last ten years of your life in a brain fog chained to a wheelchair.

Don't be a statistic! Repent of your Sins, Accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Point your mind, spirit, strength, and will toward Him.

With that being said, I'd like to give a Ted Talk with the title "Running on Pure Hate for the Good of Mankind."

Lastly, don't vote for a Democrat as this will lead to more deaths and suffering for the nation as it turns its lonely eyes further from God.

Hey, it's all about cardiomyopathy. Don't do stuff that creates cardiomyopathy:

Being fat.

Having diabetes.

Having high blood pressure.

Alcoholism.

Coronary heart disease.

Catching a virus that affects the heart!

Watch "Dr. G, Medical Examiner" and you'll see that tons of people have cardiomyopathy. Being big hearted isn't a good thing. It makes it hard to pump blood, and the electrochemical pacemaking can get messed up, causing a deadly arrhythmia.

TedX is not Ted though.

Ted Talks ... ahhh .... they were good in the early days but then they started getting any Tom, Dick or Harriet to chat.

I expect this guy has a followup ... "Running is bad for your knees"