I am a 3:07 marathoner, and I am usually able to hit my workouts week to week without many misses. But my easy runs are almost always 8:35-8:50/mile (sometimes even close to 9) and even my normal long runs are usually only about 8:00-8:25 pace. Would I be getting more benefit if I went faster? FWIW, these runs are at about 72-78% max HR which seems correct as well.
no and no.
Maybe you don't do enough workouts and marathon pace?
But your easy pace is fine
Impala31 wrote:
no and no.
Maybe you don't do enough workouts and marathon pace?
But your easy pace is fine
This is a classic question that has been discussed many times, and the above is too simplistic. For a start, there are at least two definitions of easy. It also depends a lot on total volume, the type of runner, and many other things.
The original poster would probably be well advised to simply experiment with a steady rather than recovery effort every now and then, and see how they respond. If you are able to keep all other variables the same (e.g. not detract from workouts) but increase quality on some runs, that will only be positive (of course one has to remain predominately aerobic, but if one is able to keep more or less the same volume (or even add a bit if one is limited by time), this shouldn't be any issue).
Thanks for the replies. I’m averaging about 50 miles per week for the year with a peak of 70 mpw. I’m also a male in his late thirties who has worked his marathon time down from 3:40 about five years ago.
Easy run is an umbrella term for a lot of different paces. Rather than thinking of every “easy run” the same, think about recovery runs vs maintenance runs vs medium long runs etc. A day after a very challenging workout might be an easy day just to recover and could be slower than 9 min pace. But if you have a day not pre or post workout and you want to get some added aerobic stimulus maybe i crease the pace a little or add some volume or make it progressive or something. If you just want to maintain aerobic fitness during a phase with more focused workouts that run should be easy, probably in the range you described but not as slow as a recovery day. In short just listen to your body and if you want to get a little more out of “easy days” pick and choose the times to do that.
I would be more inclined to do your easy run days at what feels like an easy pace on that particular day. If you are running higher mileage (over 60 per week) it is likely that your overall training pace may be slower than someone running the same marathon time but doing less mileage. In a buildup to a 2:55 I ran 70-80 per week (age 48) and my long runs often started at about 9:45 pace and ended at 8:45 pace. Easy runs were frequently around 10 minute pace. I think keeping the long run paces and easy days in check allowed for better quality days and 10km and half marathon races, before the big goal event.
Well that definitely makes me feel better. 2:55 at 48 years old is amazing. Well done.
The correct answer is yes they are too slow. If you need recover an occasional run can be that slow but others should be around 8. That is unless you are Kenyon and you grew up building your aerobic system.
Several good answers here. I would be inclined to say that you are more likely to benefit from slowing down your easy runs. There are many training calculators that you can use based on your marathon time. Tinman's calculator has you at 8:55-9:15 for easy runs, and close to 10:00 for recovery runs.
Save your harder running for workouts, and races!
This is only advice on what has worked for me... Have taken my marathon time down from 3'11 to 2'36 over the last two years.
I think of the long run as a session and most weeks have three sessions, Tuesday is VO2Max, Thursday Threshold and Sunday long run.
Regarding the long run, if I am in marathon training, this would quite often include some work at MP, but if not it would always be at a steady effort rather than easy pace. So some example paces for me would be:
Tuesday - trying to hit 5k pace if not faster
Thursday - HMP(ish)
Sunday - 6'50 miles for a steady pace
Everything else is easy pace for me which is whatever I feel is easy on the day, so normally between 7'15 and 8'00 per mile.
I reckon if you focused a bit more on the Sunday run you would see big benefits.
I would say that of you are able to hit your workouts, you are fine. Those are the runs where you should be worried about pace. The easy runs, long runs, and recovery runs are all about feel. Easy pace is not a number, but rather exertion on that day. When on your long run, the difficulty should come from the distance, not the pace. The benefit of the long run will come from doing something easy for a long time.
Now, if you want to turn your long run into a workout, like a progression run or something, I would then focus on speeding up. But I would not say that it is important you speed up the other runs.
I think you have to go buy your heart rate not so much pace, except on workout days- that should be pace related. Also, mileage can make a difference too. For example if you are running 70+MPW, slow is better. If you running under 50 MPH week, I would increase your pace by 15-20 sec per mile
Racetraining1 wrote:
I would be more inclined to do your easy run days at what feels like an easy pace on that particular day. If you are running higher mileage (over 60 per week) it is likely that your overall training pace may be slower than someone running the same marathon time but doing less mileage. In a buildup to a 2:55 I ran 70-80 per week (age 48) and my long runs often started at about 9:45 pace and ended at 8:45 pace. Easy runs were frequently around 10 minute pace. I think keeping the long run paces and easy days in check allowed for better quality days and 10km and half marathon races, before the big goal event.
As I get older, I'm finding this more and more true... When I was younger, I could go decent clip on easy days no problem and still hit the workouts. When I drop volume today, I can do the same. When I'm up in volume and closing, I find my easy days slow down. I've gone the path of maintaining volume and hard day paces at the expense of easy day paces. I second the 'go with what easy feels like that day' but don't cheat yourself either.
There should be no "easy runs" in your training plan. You're training, not taking it easy.
What's the steady pace? How long is your long run?
Please stop saying “recovery run.” There is no such thing. Running requires eccentric muscle contractions which, by definition, impart damage to the muscles. You cannot run, at any pace, without damaging muscles... because physics. Anything that damages the body is, in fact, not recovery. We all feel better after an easy run that we did before it - that’s called dopamine, not recovery. Most runners employ the “recovery run” as a way to pad their mileage (as if anyone cares) and/or indulge their exercise addiction by making that run on tired legs sound like a good thing. Argue/ignore this at your own peril.
Interesting perspective. Do you know of any published coach or scientist who takes that view, or is it just a hunch?
SkiMKE wrote:
Please stop saying “recovery run.” There is no such thing. Running requires eccentric muscle contractions which, by definition, impart damage to the muscles. You cannot run, at any pace, without damaging muscles... because physics. Anything that damages the body is, in fact, not recovery. We all feel better after an easy run that we did before it - that’s called dopamine, not recovery. Most runners employ the “recovery run” as a way to pad their mileage (as if anyone cares) and/or indulge their exercise addiction by making that run on tired legs sound like a good thing. Argue/ignore this at your own peril.
Not true. If your baseline is 8 miles a day, running 0 is itself a new stress on the system. And easy running also promotes the release of hormones that promote muscle repair. So, yes, recovery runs. And consistent weekly mileage provides a macrocycle-level stimulus that is as important or possibly more important for building fitness than running specific workouts.
I would like to see any supporting evidence of this as well.
want2getfaster wrote:
I am a 3:07 marathoner, and I am usually able to hit my workouts week to week without many misses. But my easy runs are almost always 8:35-8:50/mile (sometimes even close to 9) and even my normal long runs are usually only about 8:00-8:25 pace. Would I be getting more benefit if I went faster? FWIW, these runs are at about 72-78% max HR which seems correct as well.
Oh dear, this thread isn't going well.
No, your "easy pace" isn't too slow, it's not actually easy, it's more general endurace training, a bit of a grey area. Slow down to 60-70% on your "easy" days and improve your workouts, but without overdoing it.