Runner's Weight Lifting Program.

I'm not particularly strong and don't want to spend more than 2 times a week lifting. I believe that my legs will be strong enough with higher mileage and running up or down hills and technical trails if I need. Or crazy incline treadmill workouts. So i just an AB workout with one days being workout A and one day workout B during the week.

A

Leg Pres

Bench Press

Rows

B

Deadlifts

Pull-Downs ( i can't do a pullup)

Overhead shoulder press

Its kept me healthy and aesthetic looking enough without much core work

coach wrote:

Easy strength is based on Pavel's "grease the groove" concept of repetition. The exact opposite of lifting til failure you're hitting every lift comfortably. The 5 lifts you do easily is the session- every day.

Yes and people are really struggling with that since the high weight system low number of sessions is really dominate. The question is "easy lifting" remotely good for a runner or an experienced lifter? Is getting more efficient at say dead lifting really want I want to be doing or do you get better transfer over to other activities (i.e. running)but working on strength/power instead of the efficiency of deadlifting movement. I have seen plenty of papers that suggest lifting heavy works for improving distance running. I haven't seen anything that suggests that lifting light has the same effect.

Now for someone that has never lifted, it could very well be a great intro (12-16week program) to get the fundamentals of the motion down before moving on. I just struggle to see it as a long term plan for any distance runner.

I have been doing

workout 1 Dead Lifts and Squats

workout 2 Pull - Upright rows , bent rows , pull ups

workout 3 push -military press , loads of knuckleups , dips . other shoulder presses .. psuedo planche pushups

the keep it simple .. it work for me

It's not a long term plan. Neither Pavel nor Dan John intended for it to be long term. It's a nice refreshing protocol to use for 40 days or so. Dan John was tired of beating himself up with other training protocols and tried it and had gains that shocked him. This summer, while gyms were still closed, my son and I did the workouts at home. 15 minutes then either basketball, a short jog or a long walk for me. It's nice not to beat yourself up and still maintain or even get in better shape.

How has that worked for you? Aesthetically and with regards to running?

If you think that running is about fixing the spine and being super strong lifting weights up and down, just know that the act of running is a rotational movement and a movement that is defined by its absolute freedom from fixed positions and vertical strength.

If your strength training doesn't include a majority of movements with a rotational component then you're teaching your body to not move well.

Every movement you make involving locomotion, running and walking need spinal rotation through the slinging action of that rotational component. It is a skill that you will lose and you will replace it with a dysfunction if you don't train it regularly.

Your spine is made to rotate and the power you gain from that rotation is what powers all running and gait movements.

It also helps to ensure your knees and other joints stay safe and serve you for years to come as all of your joints will be negatively affected if you lose the spinal rotation.

So, again...squats, deadlifts, planks, etc. don't help and may even hinder the running motion.

Do cleans and snatches involve rotation? Should runners do them?

When you are running, your feet and legs are applying force into the ground in order to propel you forward. Lifts like squats and deadlifts make your legs/glutes stronger so you can apply more force into the ground, thus increasing your speed.

Saying they "don't help and may even hinder running motion" is complete nonsense, as made evident in mountains of sport science literature and demonstrated through application in other sports, like THE SPRINTS.

I'm not going to convince anyone here especially when folks are following decades of misinformation that has been handed down by physical therapists and coaches that haven't studied gait and running biomechanics.

People in the running community are generally very quick to shoot down anything they don’t understand. It seems that it’s easier to do that than it is to actually learn new things, or even learn old things that they never learned. There are hundreds of research articles I could share but the best thing someone could do is study “Spinal Engine Theory” by Sergei Gracovetsky (gait truth!) Also, “Anatomy Trains” by Thomas Myers, and the principles of “Biotensegrity”, just by studying those three things, someone would be decades ahead of 99.9% of the fitness and running world.

Gait biomechanics is not an easy subject, physics is huge and the principle of specificity trumps everything always!

To be the best runner, one should forget about strength work and work on specificity. Two feet planted on the ground doing a squat is not specific to running.

How about a Bulgarian split squat?

No. And, no. There is some value in these exercises for short sprinters that need to overcome inertia and clear the blocks. Once the blocks are cleared, it's just a fast running motion.

Some value in clearing the starting blocks where one is in a low driving position.

I just perused spinal engine theory and relayed works you suggested.

Are you suggesting that running up a slight incline, skipping and bounding is all the lower body work necessary for runners?

I suspect you'd be an advocate of "core work" like med ball tosses while standing on 1 foot?

What about going from general strength to specific strength?

Haven't found a specific plan but the best book I have read is strength and conditioning for runners by Rich Blagrove (UK). Keeps the weights part v simple for beginners suggesting 2-3 sessions a week of:

2 bilateral movements (e.g. deadlifts, squats)

2 unilateral movements (e.g. Bulgarian split squats step-ups)

1 upper body (either push or pull)

Change the exercises every so often to avoid boredom. Like some other people said on here, aim is to get to heavy weights, small number of reps.

Add any necessary extras for your individual weaknesses (mine are calf raises)

Check out Dr Claire Minshull in the UK (she's featured in a few podcasts) for some of the most up-to-date and respected stuff on heavy weights for runners here.

YES!!! You are supposed to sit on your ass between sets. What do you think the purpose of the rest between sets is?

If you are doing 4 sets of 5 reps @ 80-85% 1RM you are looking at approx 3min rest between sets in order to restore that phosphagen system

CP + ADP = ATP

Most of effective strength training is sitting round waiting for your next set.

Alan

I keep it really simple with 5 sets of 5 reps on about 2 minutes rest.

Freeweights for the most part, but not always.

Twice a week, pick any five movements.

Squats

Deadlifts

Lunges

Strict pull-ups

Bench press

Shoulder press

Bent-over barbell rows

Seated hamstring curls

One-arm dumbbell rows

Also, training doesn't always need to be super specific to the sport. Why do runners run anything other than at race pace? 100 years ago runners used to do that.....basically just time trials at race pace. The same can be said for other sports. In fact why should any athlete perform general strength training?

You perform general strength training in order to make the specific work more effective.

The specific work in the weight room for runners will be more plyometric based......single leg box jumps, split jumps, etc. Those plyos will be more effective once you have a greater strength to pull from:

As it pertains to strength training.....Power = Work/Time. Work = Muscular Force x Displacement. If you can generate more force over a greater distance in less time then you improve muscular power.

Rupp and Farah were known for their heavy squatting, by runner's standards .

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

As it pertains to strength training.....Power = Work/Time. Work = Muscular Force x Displacement. If you can generate more force over a greater distance in less time then you improve muscular power.

Rupp and Farah were known for their heavy squatting, by runner's standards .

Alan

Make sure you're training the correct muscles, though. Specifically the obliques and abductors. Rupp, Farah and even Seb Coe ran well DESPITE doing squats. It just speaks to their talent that they were able to overcome the squats counteractive effects.

coach wrote:

I just perused spinal engine theory and relayed works you suggested.

Are you suggesting that running up a slight incline, skipping and bounding is all the lower body work necessary for runners?

I suspect you'd be an advocate of "core work" like med ball tosses while standing on 1 foot?

What about going from general strength to specific strength?

Misinformation observer,

Curious about your response