(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/18/20

PB / 2020:

Mile 4:06 / 4:26(TT)

3k 8:20 / 8:48(TT-converted)

5k 14:32 / 15:38(TT)

10k 31:30 / 32:36(TT)

Half 1:08:31 / NT

Full 2:32:50 / NT

Upcoming Races:

11/26 5M Turkey Trot

12/13 Half

01/17 Half

M: easy, 10M

T: strength, 1.5M(5:08 pace) 1.5M(5:03 pace) 1M(4:42) with 1/2mi jogs, 10M

W: easy, 10M

T: easy, 11M

F: easy, 10M

S: off, —

S: long run, 22M

10/17 Total 73 (6d)

10/10 Total 67 (6d), LR=17

10/3 Total 73 (6d), LR=20

9/27 Total 71 (6d), LR=20

9/20 Total 72 (6d), LR=20

9/13 Total 65 (6d), LR=19

9/06 Total 68 (6d), LR=18

8/30 Total 60 (6d)

8/23 Total 45 (6d)

8/16 Total 50 (6d), LR=13

8/09 Total 70 (6d), LR=20

8/02 Total 68 (6d), LR=17

7/26 Total 76 (6d), LR=20

7/19 Total 70 (6d), LR=18

7/12 Total 70 (6d), LR=20

7/05 Total 66 (6d), LR=18

6/28 Total 66 (6d), LR=18

6/21 Total 42 (4d), LR=18 ??

6/14 Total 68 (6d), LR=18

6/07 Total 40 (4d), LR=16 *rest week

5/31 Total 44 (6d), 1M TT 4:26 (track)

5/24 Total 57 (6d), LR=14

5/17 Total 52 (6d), 2M TT 9:31 (road)

5/10 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

5/03 Total 56 (6d), 4M TT 20:30 (road)

4/26 Total 60 (6d), LR=15

4/19 Total 56 (6d), 5k TT 15:38 (road)

4/12 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

4/05 Total 57 (6d), 10k TT 32:36 (road)

3/29 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

3/22 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

3/15 Total 60 (6d), LR=16

3/08 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

3/01 Total 52 (6d), 10k 32:40 (road)

2/23 Total 62 (6d), LR=18

2/16 Total 67 (6d), LR=17

2/09 Total 62 (6d), LR=15

2/02 Total 34 (4d) *sick

1/26 Total 55 (6d), LR=16

1/19 Total 52 (6d), LR=13

1/12 Total 60 (6d), LR=16

1/05 Total 62 (6d), LR=14

2020 Totals: 2,540 miles / 42 weeks / 246 days

Last race before conference in two weeks, another struggle fest for me. Second rough race in a row, so far the only race I have been happy with was my season opener, a 21:30 on a long 4 mile race (4.11). Course was flat and open, 2k loops, however there was 25 mph winds in your face for roughly 1200 of the 2k loop so that made it hard. Also ran solo for around 5k of the race which was very mentally challenging.

M - 6 miles @ 6:58 + strides + weights

Tue - 2.3 WU/CD, 4 x (1000,400,200 on grass) [1:30 after k, 45s after 400, 3:00 in between sets]

3:02-70-34

3:01-67-33

2:58-71-33

2:58-70-33

W - off

Thu - 6 miles @ 7:13 + strides + weights

F - AM: 4 miles @ 7:21

PM: 4 miles @ 7:25 (around course) + strides

Sat - 3.25 WU/CD, 8k race in 27:30

Sun - 11 miles @ 7:04

Miles: 52

I am with my teammates and don't feel as though I am in the well in these workouts, I am just confused why I can't seem to put it together on race day. The guys I am finishing with all went sub 26:00 at the race and I can't understand it.

Male, 27, 6’4”, 146 lbs

PRs: 4:54 mi to 2:47:14 M (2018)

Upcoming Races: 50M 11/21/20

Mo - 8 @ 6:55s

Tu - 5 @ 8:00s

Wd - Off

Th - 5k in 18:35 + WU/WD = 10

Fr - 4 @ 7:30s w. 4 strides

Sa - 50k (32.5mi) in 5:44:35 w/ 5200ft of elv

Su - 6 @ 8:00s

Total - 66

Race was fine, hiked up some massive hills, was tough conditions to run in, layers of wet leaves straight through the forest with roots and rocks meant that even on the flats you couldn't really open up. The downhills were scary. Happy to take it as a training run for JFK. tied for 3rd, only one rough fall

M40, 6-6, 198

Next race: London, Fall 2021.

Howdy folks. It been almost two months since I had the topaz procedure done on my right PF. It still hurts, but that is to be expected: my podiatrist said the soreness would last 2-3 months and then magically go away. In the meantime I’ve been a running a little on grass to stay sane, not get fat, and enjoy the fall weather. This week was 21 miles in 4 OR-style progression runs (albeit much slower). I’ve also been walking the dog every morning, which has been nice. Roll tide.

M/41/getting 'big' again :)

I have been off this thread and Letsrun in general for the past few weeks. Hoping that getting back here will provide the required training spark - very on and off training for the last couple of months.

M: Run - 7 easy; Ride - 19 easy

T: Ride - 28 miles hard

W: Run - 7.2 easy

Th: Run - 6.8 easy; Ride - 30 easy with a 4.5 mile hard (@ 6%) to the top of the local hill.

F: Ride - 28 easy

Sa: Run - 12 on the local trails - about 3000 ft elevation gain.

Su: 35 easy + 15 hard

Run: 33 miles

Ride: 155 miles

With no races planned in the near future, I am trying to find the right balance between running and riding for general fitness. Think I overdid it this week though :).

I will be introducing some easy -ish running workouts from next week onwards.

RunnerSam wrote:

Male, 27, 6’4”, 146 lbs

PRs: 4:54 mi to 2:47:14 M (2018)

Upcoming Races: 50M 11/21/20

Mo - 8 @ 6:55s

Tu - 5 @ 8:00s

Wd - Off

Th - 5k in 18:35 + WU/WD = 10

Fr - 4 @ 7:30s w. 4 strides

Sa - 50k (32.5mi) in 5:44:35 w/ 5200ft of elv

Su - 6 @ 8:00s

Total - 66

Race was fine, hiked up some massive hills, was tough conditions to run in, layers of wet leaves straight through the forest with roots and rocks meant that even on the flats you couldn't really open up. The downhills were scary. Happy to take it as a training run for JFK. tied for 3rd, only one rough fall

Nice week and well done on the 50k. I keep thinking I'm doing well enough with training for JFK and had wanted to get in a long trail race in the buildup, but it just isn't going to happen. Hard to find right now.

Allen1959 - glad to see you still getting at it

rucker - my plan from here out is to get in 3 more long runs, 2-2.5 hrs, one on trails and the other two more flat. hopefully will be above 60mpw for the next 4 weeks as well, dont worry about the JFK, just have a nutrition plan. im not sure what the aid stations will look like, the race on saturday only had prepackaged foodstuffs, water bottles and HEED (similar to roctane or tailwind I guess). You could search ultrasignup for a longer race before JFK but you are likely better off just running far on your own, since you will likely be solo in the (non jfk)race anyhow

BHV - let us know how the Endorphin Pros are, I believe another poster on this thread said they were good, dont remember who

darkwave - thanks for the breakdown on PRP, hopefully it works

OR - what is your plan for the weeks heading into Harrisburg? that 20 miler was really solid

M35, 6'2, 176 lbs

Next: Trying To Get Healthy

Mon - 20.01 mi cycling @ 19.1 mph

Tues - 5.32 mi @ 7:58/mi

Wed - 6.00 mi @ 7:41/mi

Thurs - 5.11 mi @ 8:15/mi

Fri - 15.65 mi cycling @ 16.8 mph

Sat - 5.05 mi @ 7:55/mi

Sun - 8.00 mi @ 7:30/mi

Don't mind me. Just trying to put in the work over here.

Not much out of the ordinary other than my longest run since the injury.

M- am 3 easy, pm kettle bells and leg blasters

T - 1500 hard in the pool

W - 7 easy

T - am 5 hills, boot camp & leg blasters, pm 2k swim

F - 6 easy

S - 5 easy

S - 10 easy

Total 31 miles

Decided to not bump miles this last week as I was still feeling it from the leg blasters and KB circuits. Started feeling better toward the end of the week. Next week will move to 7 days a week while adding strides and trying to keep a hilly run in the mix. Target is 40-45 miles.

Missed a 2.2k swim Saturday as well.

HHW: Nice week. I like the gradual progression with the mile repeats. Very nice bread and butter workout.

RRR: Good strength in those workouts.

Stone: Solid mileage and promising signs with that Thursday workout. Looks like a solid week for Mrs. Stone.

Allen: Good to see the progression runs coming along. Here’s to a healthy new year indeed!

Sub 6: Nice week, and nice work on that tempo run. Respect to 2,001 the shoe odyssey.

OR: I see why you were happy about the long run!

pewow: Sounds like a challenging course for that 10k.

NP: Strong week. Those long tempos will definitely make you fit.

rucker: Solid week. This can be a weird time of year for weather.

Seppo: Look forward to following the new training cycle. How are you planning to break down that 15-20 weeks?

Viking: Hope the knee is settling down. Not a bad time for a couple of down weeks, perhaps.

darkwave: Hope the therapy works well for you. Good to hear that you can continue to be active during the process.

GNR: Interesting to see the big long run outside of marathon training.

SB/SB: Sorry to hear about the frustrating race, especially since it sounds like the training has been going well.

Sam: Congrats on the race. Sounds like challenging conditions – fallen leaves on unfamiliar trails can make things tricky.

AJ: Here’s to getting healthy again.

cocoon: 3,000 feet of climbing is no joke!

Tyler: Good to see you on the comeback trail.

Working Harder: Sounds like a good call to hold off on the mileage bump while the legs adjust.

RunnerSam wrote:

rucker - my plan from here out is to get in 3 more long runs, 2-2.5 hrs, one on trails and the other two more flat. hopefully will be above 60mpw for the next 4 weeks as well, dont worry about the JFK, just have a nutrition plan. im not sure what the aid stations will look like, the race on saturday only had prepackaged foodstuffs, water bottles and HEED (similar to roctane or tailwind I guess). You could search ultrasignup for a longer race before JFK but you are likely better off just running far on your own, since you will likely be solo in the (non jfk)race anyhow

That looks about like my plan - 60-65mpw for the next 3/4 weeks, and 2-3 more two hour runs.

Any advice on nutrition? My stomach isn’t iron, but I handle gels well. I was going to do 1 gel/hour and drink Nuun. PB & Honey sandwich or two later on (3 and 5 hours in??). Pedialyte later in the day. Hotshot in the race vest in case I hit cramp problems. Shooting to be off the course in less than 8h. I know nutrition is an individual game but any insight is helpful.

M/35/145

M - 8 at 7:04

T - 2.5 WU, 6x800 on the road (233, 236, 226, 232, 229, 232)... not sure what happened on third rep... pacing on the road is so much harder, 3 CD

W - 10 at 7:00

Th - 11 at 7:05

F - 8 at 7:09

Sa - 10.25 at 7:49

Su - 15.3 at 6:43, first 8 around 6:50, second 8 faster... but not hard.

Total: 72.2 miles

Pretty good week overall, 800s felt good, but on the road I was having trouble gauging pace, the route was a bit rolling of a mile loop. I think the faster 1/2 mile was for reps 1, 3, and 5.

I have the Endorphin Pros, and love them, for some things. I actually wear them for long runs, I've been consistently feeling better after the run in those vs. my typical daily trainer. I would probably not choose them over the next% if i was racing though. They don't feel as... poppy, if that is a word and makes sense. Still a great shoe, I'd buy another pair, for sure.

HHW - You *win* the posting race most weeks. Got to be competitive about this stuff.

RRR - Plenty of time to pivot to the half. Couple good workouts.

SC - Nice to see it coming along.

GFMAH - Well stated on the goal.

Allen - Happy to see you’re doing all right.

OR - It escaped me that you’re only 3 weeks out from the marathon. Solid run Saturday.

pewow - That 10k sounds brutal. Staying in Madison after graduation?

Npurdy - Quite a range of tempos! I find myself using the word to describe anything from LT up to a good bit slower than M pace.

Rucker - Sounds like a great run on Saturday. I think RRR’s prediction is a given.

Seppo - Too bad but not surprising the indoor races are already cancelled. Who knows what this winter will bring.

BHViking - I didn’t comment the last couple weeks, but that was some monster volume.

darkwave- Best wishes on a continued recovery.

GNR1 - Solid workout on Tuesday.

SMSB - Sounds pretty frustrating. Sorry I don’t have any advice, but I’ve had seasons like that.

RunnerSam - Glad to see the 50k went all right.

AJ - Being sidelined during good running weather is the worst. Glad you’ve been able to get in some miles.

cocoon - Getting away from LRC is generally healthy, as is a good mix of running/non-running activities.

Tyler - Hitting a “longest since injury” run always feels good. How long have you been back doing some running?

WH - Good mix of work.

Lanc- It’s a lot harder pacing consistently on the roads. Always prefer the track for intervals, but I guess it’s good for you to practice fast running on the road.

rucker wrote:

That looks about like my plan - 60-65mpw for the next 3/4 weeks, and 2-3 more two hour runs.

Any advice on nutrition? My stomach isn’t iron, but I handle gels well. I was going to do 1 gel/hour and drink Nuun. PB & Honey sandwich or two later on (3 and 5 hours in??). Pedialyte later in the day. Hotshot in the race vest in case I hit cramp problems. Shooting to be off the course in less than 8h. I know nutrition is an individual game but any insight is helpful.

Race Website, likely not updated for Covid

"Provisions at these stations will include: colas, electrolyte replace drinks, water, sandwiches, salted items, sweet items, energy gels, energy bars and basic first aid supplies. Some later aid stations may have hot drinks. The tentative locations are at approximately the 4, 10, 16, 20, 22, 25, 27, 30, 34, 38, 42, 44, 46 and 48 mile points."

It looks like Nuun is for electrolytes and Hotshot is for muscle cramping. I'd say that a 100 calorie Gel per hour isnt enough. If you can stomach PB & Honey then go for it, but I'd suggest having smaller quantities more spread out since eating a whole sandwich at a time is tough and your body may not digest it quickly (or happily). But as you mentioned it is very person by person, although Ive never really done it they say that trying it in training is the best way to know what works. Unless it is a hot day I would worry less about electrolytes and more about calories.

I typically try to have a gel every 45min and a bottle of roctane every 75min (estimates), puts me around 200-250 cal/hr. Then at each (or maybe every other in JFK) aid station I grab something that has salt, either chips pretzels broth or potatoes. More generally I use gel/drink mix for calories and solid food for salt.

JFK isnt as easy on having a crew but it does have more aid stations, I will likely be more reliant on gels unless they have drink mixes (calorie not electrolyte). I've used salt tablets twice for cramping, they work really quick. I am guessing hotshot will do the same. We will have to see what is at the aid stations with the covid restrictions and adjust. If they have Gels I might only take roctane with me and rely on aid stations for gels. I can probably squeeze 4-5 servings of premeasured roctane baggies if I dont take gels. I only use a handheld with a little pocket, and my short shorts pocket.

I only used HEED, two gels, and one baggie of pretzels for my 50k and it was only about an hour less than Id like to run JFK, I felt fine. I even forgot my handheld and just carried a soft flask bottle we got in the race packet. Slight correction on my finishing time, it was 5:52:36, I think I put the winners time in my post on accident.

-RS

Lanc, going to come watch the time trails tomorrow, hope you are racing

Sub 6:00 wrote:

RunnerSam - Glad to see the 50k went all right.

Thanks Sub6, it was not a great result but a fine training race. Feeling like I really couldn't open up the stride was annoying. Most of the race was tough footing and dangerous steps, the last four miles are mostly fire road and open. My only fall of the race was about a quarter mile into this section, I finally opened up my stride and my left foot bumped into a rock barely (2inches?) sticking out of the ground and down I go hard on a slight downhill. Slight shock from the fall along with some scrapes but only my pride was damaged. Guess the body was too tired for that speed.

RunnerSam wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:

RunnerSam - Glad to see the 50k went all right.

Thanks Sub6, it was not a great result but a fine training race. Feeling like I really couldn't open up the stride was annoying. Most of the race was tough footing and dangerous steps, the last four miles are mostly fire road and open. My only fall of the race was about a quarter mile into this section, I finally opened up my stride and my left foot bumped into a rock barely (2inches?) sticking out of the ground and down I go hard on a slight downhill. Slight shock from the fall along with some scrapes but only my pride was damaged. Guess the body was too tired for that speed.

Ouch. I feel like I more often get tripped up in situations like that than in places where the footing is more obviously difficult.

RunnerSam wrote:

Lanc, going to come watch the time trails tomorrow, hope you are racing

Indeed I am. We'll see you there. Awesome effort on the 50k... still unfathomable to me how you Ultra guys can do it. I know you might not subscribe to being an ultra guy... but you do ultras, so wear the badge proudly.

RunnerSam wrote:

OR - what is your plan for the weeks heading into Harrisburg? that 20 miler was really solid

RS - I hinted at this with Allen on Saturday. Been trying to keep things in the spirit of his three-marathon 2:40 lead-up. To me, the two distinguishing features there are rest and long runs. So, while I will continue to run by feel, I will look to get in another true long run this week, likely on Friday. I have studied what he has posted, and it is my opinion that all of those consecutive LRs and marathons simply produced an awesome aerobic affect in him.