Rowing Machine Questions

Boaty McBoatface wrote:

I need to supplement my running with another form of exercise as I age. With a demanding job and a house full of kids, it is really hard to get to the gym regularly. I try my best and average about 1.5 times a week.

I want to build muscle and burn fat. I currently run about 50-60 mpw and plan to continue that amount.

I hear rowing is a great workout. I am assuming this is true.

Any warnings? Any suggestions? Can I eliminated lifting and just row for general muscle building and health?

What is the best rowing machine on the market? I will not be able to afford it, but it would be nice to know the top of the line equipment.

Thanks so much for any help.

Rowing is a great addition to running.

1) No, it does not eliminate or replace lifting. You need to do both to maximize performance in running.

2) Don't make the typical rookie mistake and row with a damper setting of 10 (Concept 2 machine). Use 3-5 for smooth riding. You don't bike always with the heaviest gear on, do you? People think they work harder with a higher setting which is just stupid. Power comes from how fast you row and how far you pull it, damper setting just increases the muscular requirements. Even pro rowers use 3-5 almost exclusively, also for lower injury risk.

HF!

I’d recommend using concept 2 erg. That’s most widely used. There are many others on the market to try but that’s the gold standard. Concept and others now have “dynamic erg” models as well, but stick with the classic style to start.

I’d start with 20-30min, then build to 60 or so over time. The other poster said dont set the Resistance/damper setting to 10. Agree - it’s a classic beginner mistake to put it too high. keep it around 3-4 if you’re a lighter guy and 5 if you’re a heavier guy.

Another important point are strokes per minute - don’t jump on and start going 25 or 30 strokes per minute. Keep it around 18-22 for steady state/mileage. The higher rates are for shorter and more intense rowing. Like intervals or time trials. If you want to pull “faster” keep the strokes per minute Low and just pull harder.

You’ll see it’s not hard to exhaust yourself with a resistance setting of 5, and rate 20. One fun workout I used to do was to see how many meters I could pull in 30min, keeping my rate at 20 strokes per minute. Pull hard.

You guys have given me some fantastic information. Thank you so much. I am going to look into the Concept 2 and see if I can make it happen. I will probably try to test one out for a few weeks prior to buying.

One last quick question at the risk of being annoying... I am no longer competing in running, so this is not to help my running performance. I run because I enjoy it and like the camaraderie of my group. I will never PR again and honestly gave it my all in college and post-college and feel good about my days as a competitor.

That said, I enjoy being fit and do better at life with a high intensity exercise load (mentally and physically). So my question regarding rowing replacing lifting was more about whether I can rely on rowing to provide effective muscle development. I know I won't get huge lifting, but will it do a decent job of keeping my upper body from atrophying?

Again, thank you.

Boaty McBoatface wrote:

I know I won't get huge lifting, but will it do a decent job of keeping my upper body from atrophying?

Sorry, sentence corrected below:

I know I won't get huge rowing, but will it do a decent job of keeping my upper body from atrophying?

As the other guy said rowing isn't a substitute for weights. If you already lift or want to build strength/power you should still lift weights. That said you can still put on weight/muscle - rowing can help you develop some real power/aerobic power. The low stroke per minute allows you to pull hard, you're basically developing your power per stroke. Done properly a rowing stroke is a bit like a deadlight, heels through hips through shoulders. You're supposed to connect through body. Even if it's not done properly it's still a full body movement.

But it's really all a leg press/arm pull movement. You don't develop chest muscles as an example.

Otherwise good luck, it's an amazing sport. Similar to you i was post college athletic career in a different sport, moved into the erg, and then got hooked into on water rowing.

A few fun workouts to try if you'd like

30minutes at rate 20 (then try at higher rates)

1000m at rate 20

1000m open rate

2000m open rate - 2000m erg score is the big thing for any rower.

One of the top rowers of the last few Olympics is a Kiwi, Eric Murray - if you search him on youtube he's done a series of promo/workout videos for concept 2. Could be a great start for a beginner. It's basically like Farah or Rupp doing 30min videos on training/technique.

I got in best shape of my life at age 35 rowing 4-5 times a week and ran a very easy sub 3:30 marathon with maybe running only 200 miles total in the prior 3-4 months. Not fast by any means but had never run more than 13 miles before that and my fitness at that pace was spot on.

I had owned the c2 rower for a number of years but was doing the workout of the day from concept website and typically doing short workout. So basically high intensity. Also did something called pete's plan for a bit. A lot of rowing stuff focuses on 2k race/time. I started doing low intensity rowing based on heart rate, 75-78% of predicted heart rate max. Did 30-45 minutes and eventually was doing hour workouts. Dropped everything but these type of workouts and got as cut and trim as i had ever been, even more so than when i did crossfit for a couple years in my late 20's. I cannot say enough good things about low intensity mid distance (10k-20k meters) rowing. If I didn't enjoy running and being outside so much from an effective exercise standpoint, its all i would do. and as above damper on 5-6 and never change it.

You guys are the best. Thank you.

I really appreciate LRC for this type of thing.

Have a great day.

Rowing is NOT about pulling. Use your legs, core and back before your arms. Use your largest and strongest muscles first (legs, core back) before your arms. Hands should be loose and cupped on the handles.

Going up the slide to the catch: arms, back legs.

Going back to the release: legs, back, arms.

Another vote for Concept 2. They have one in my gym and I used it 3-4 times a week after knee surgery.

You also got the free ergdata app that uploads all your training to the concept2 site. Gives you a great training log (with heart rate if you measure it). Then if you do try a PB, you can use their ranking list to compare with other rowers of the same age/sex, to see how your doing.

most of this thread is good and useful, and I'd add that rowing often hurts the lower back.

Be sure to look at youtube or get some coaching.

The key is to make sure your back is NOT shaped like a C in the drive - you want it more upright than might feel comfortable.

If you are slumped over, the stress will be exactly in your lower back.

I believe strongly that the erg is a good training device for runners. It's a form of lifting and can help a lot.

My husband was a D1 rower at one of the top programs.

We have an old Concept 2 that I have used off and on over the years.

I have always thought time on the erg is equivalent to double the time running.

So 30 mins on erg = 60 mins running.

It is a hard workout! Especially the first couple weeks of being on the erg.

Most of your power should come from your legs not your back or arms.

Good posture, sitting tall and straight is important.

I have always felt the most fit when I am both erging and running.

This thread is motivating me to get back on the erg a few days a week!

When in the drive phase of the stroke, it's helpful to think less about using your back and more about isolating and using your lats.

Look at any serious rower's upper body and note the prominence of her/his lats. Rowing properly means there should be little stress on your lower back by utilizing what a previous poster noted: good posture plus using your lats.

Agree with recommendations for Concept2. I got one a couple months ago and it is great.

Having only been a runner for years, it has been a change to add rowing. I have used it for short double workouts and to replace 1 run per week the day after a long run. Doing this has made my legs feel better recovered from long hard efforts. TBD how fitness will be affected.

I've been doing mostly lower rate (20 strokes per minute) steady efforts. Interestingly, I will tire out after a period of time and it becomes difficult to maintain stroke power. My HR will drift throughout, even at a low effort, while running I can stay at a low HR for a 2 hr run no problem. I like taking a short 1-2 minute break every 10 minutes on the rower for a mental break and to wipe off sweat.

I think it is important to have some more intense efforts though. I found I was getting a little lazy always rowing slow. Adding some shorter intervals or threshold efforts the last few weeks has improved my stroke.

Anyway, these are random thoughts, but good choice with the rower. I was able to get a Concept 2 through Rogue very quickly despite a long waitlist on the Concept2 website.

Looking at Concept 2 machines.

Is there an opinion on here on whether the Model D, Model E, or Dynamic is better? They aren't terribly far apart in price, so if one is far superior it would be good to know.

Thank you.

Also something to file away if you look at the world records for various distances rowed on the Concept it they seem to tall at about 85% of a running track record. So for example the 2K world record for rowing is something like 5:34 and track & field is 4:44.

One hour row records are 18.7K or thereabouts and one hour running records are about 21.7 K give or take (I don't have time to math it).

Lots of threads on this if you search for them.

cox box wrote:

Lots of threads on this if you search for them.

That was exactly what I did when I bumped this one. I am just wondering which model to buy.

Hey butter beans, I strongly recommend the model D - that’s the tried and true machine

Model E is the same machine but elevated - so it’s really only necessary if you have really bad knees and have trouble getting off and on (maybe that’s you). Personally the elevated machine feels a bit weird.

Dynamic erg I’ve used many times and I really don’t like it. It’s actually pretty difficult to use and I don’t think it accomplishes it’s goal of better simulating on the water rowing. If you’re a beginner I don’t think it’s the machine for you

FYI, if you want a “dynamic erg” you can always buy the model D and then buy “sliders” down the road. I’ve used them many times they’re great.