Sub 2 800m Training

If you are a developing athlete in HS, that sub 1:50 training thread is not relevant. It's probably best to plan this with your coach.

I'd say that you will need to develop better 400m speed (post XC season), ideally sub 55 at least. If you can do that while building off your aerobic strength from XC, you'll improve your 800m.

Having said that, the sub-1:50 thread is one of the best, most informative threads on letsrun. Have read it several times, thoroughly enjoyed it, and learned a lot.

Hey, I’d structure your speed training JUST A LITTLE differently.

I’ve found what yields the best improvement in the 800m for me, is having a speed oriented interval session and an endurance oriented interval session.

Speed days are gonna be at goal 400/800m pace or faster with reps of 50m up to 400m with long rest, my fav faster than 800 pace workout is what I like to call the speed pyramid, which is one to two sets of 100-200-300-400-300-200-100

Endurance is gonna be reps of 400m-1000m at mile-5k pace with shorter rest. Think something like Georgetown 400s or a broken 5k.

Speed work should help you a lot, if you can get in that 53-55 range and build solid endurance you should be able to break 2! Best of luck.

Monday 4mi (7:21/mi) + 6x10sec Hill Sprints + Lift
Tuesday 3mi (7:43/mi)s
Wednesday 5mi (7:45/mi)
Thursday 2mi wu 3x1k w/2min rest (3:29, 3:25, 3:18) 4x200 w/2:30min Rest (31, 29, 30, 28) 1.5mi cd + Lifting
Friday 4mi (7:35/mi)
Saturday 8mi (7:16/mi)
Sunday 10mi Bike Ride
Really only one workout this week and it wasn't that difficult, smooth on the 1ks then just turning over the legs a little on the 200s
Total 30.62mi + 10mi Bike

Are you HS, College, or after?

Your 400 times don't match anything else you listed, except your 200m times.
I ran many 800m in high school and college.

1. One aerobic distance run per week: we would do 1 hour and cover about 9 miles (6:40 pace).
1a. So...run for 1 hour, once a week. It is meant to be aerobic, which means you are not short of breath. We did this on Sundays.
1b.. In college, we ran 10 miles in about 58 minutes.

2. Lydiard fartlek: 5-7 miles, building up to a fast, sustained pace, then slowing down. 3-4 such builds in the workout. We would build for about 3/4ths of a mile and sustain for 400m or so.

3. Homer fartlek: 4-6 miles, running 6:30 - 7 minute pace, then stopping for several fast sprints with very short recovery (50s or 100s). Repeat 2-3 times.

4. Power run every other week: 4-5 miles almost as fast as you can run that distance in a race.
4a. The alternate week: run ladders (600m, 400m, 200m) or (500m, 300m, 100m). Run 2 repeats, with about five minutes between intervals, and 10 minutes between sets. In other words, 3 sets of ladders, and it can be 3 of the same, or mix up the two. Run at expected mile pace for the 600, 400m, 200m; run at expected 800m pace (sub-2) for the 500m, 300m, 100m.
4b. After a few weeks, cut down the rest to 2 minutes between intervals, and 5 minutes between sets.

5. ; Weights ( and if you can, water training for 15 minutes: 5 at 2-mile pace, 3 minutes slower, 3 minutes at mile pace, 1 minute slower, 1 minute at half-mile pace, and 2 minutes slower).

6. Other, or rest.

7. Rest or race or time trial, depending on the weather and time of the year.  

I don’t want to be a wet blanket, but the kids I’ve coached or the kids I know that have gone sub 2 all had the ability to run under 55 without any specific 400 training.

So, you’ve never really approached your best 400 because you’ve never really tried OR you’re going to have a difficult (but not impossible) time breaking 2.

That being said, the 200’s at the end of the workout look promising.

I've never tried to approach my best 400, like I said I've pretty much never done actual speed training. I think I could probably run faster if I did an all out 400m now and I think I have a lot higher of a ceiling in the 400 than where I am at rn.
This week
Monday: 5mi easy w/5xmin hills + 3x(200,150,100)
Tuesday: 4.1mi @ 7:22/mi + 20mi Bike ride
Wednesday: 6mi @ 7:35/mi
Thursday: 4x800 w/2min rest + 300,200,100
Friday: 4.1mi @ 7:20/mi
Saturday: 50.3mi Bike
Sunday: Rest
Mileage: 27mi Running + 70.25 bike
Wanting more mileage this week but I didn't get my long run in unfortunately should be closer to 35-40 next week. Also didn't get to lift so not a completely optimal week but the takeaway was the 800s on Thursday felt really good.
Hills were 5:20 pace on Monday with a 90sec jog down and those weren't very hard than the splits on 200,150,100 where (31,23,15), (31,22,13), (28, 22, 14). Splits on Thursday were (2:50, 2:43, 2:35, 2:27) (51, 30, 14)

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JoggyHobber wrote:
I've never tried to approach my best 400, like I said I've pretty much never done actual speed training. I think I could probably run faster if I did an all out 400m now and I think I have a lot higher of a ceiling in the 400 than where I am at rn.
This week
Monday: 5mi easy w/5xmin hills + 3x(200,150,100)
Tuesday: 4.1mi @ 7:22/mi + 20mi Bike ride
Wednesday: 6mi @ 7:35/mi
Thursday: 4x800 w/2min rest + 300,200,100
Friday: 4.1mi @ 7:20/mi
Saturday: 50.3mi Bike
Sunday: Rest
Mileage: 27mi Running + 70.25 bike
Wanting more mileage this week but I didn't get my long run in unfortunately should be closer to 35-40 next week. Also didn't get to lift so not a completely optimal week but the takeaway was the 800s on Thursday felt really good.
Hills were 5:20 pace on Monday with a 90sec jog down and those weren't very hard than the splits on 200,150,100 where (31,23,15), (31,22,13), (28, 22, 14). Splits on Thursday were (2:50, 2:43, 2:35, 2:27) (51, 30, 14)

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Good workout, and showed some speed.
400s in intervals will matter more than 800s in your quest.

Maybe replace 800s with 400s this coming week, and see how fast you can run them?

So, after looking at this week, I think you might have a shot.

One thing to bear in mind for runners that have some miles on their legs and some decent endurance, It doesn't take a lot of speed to better your 800 time. You need to think about approaching the event as a "top down" guy. Also, you need to bear in mind that if you have not been doing a given type of training, just adding a little bit of the training initially will still yield pretty big gains in whatever that training is supposed to address. So, if you're adding in weights, start with very little. If you're adding in speed, start with very little. Try to think about training for the minimum effective dose. So, if I have a headache and I take an aspirin and the headache goes away, there is no need to take 2 aspirin. Take 100 aspirin and I need my stomach pumped.

Adding in strength and speed is the same way. Too much fast stuff too soon will leave your legs stale and heavy

Without knowing exactly what you were doing before, I will guess that the speed sessions you did last week are quite a bit more volume of speed than you are used to. If I were you, I'd continue a little more closely with whatever I'd been doing previously but add in a LITTLE bit of fast stuff. If I were you, I'd go to the track and run a 400 TT for real. Spike up, take an easy day or an off day prior, get great warm up. Then base your speed training for the next 6-10 weeks around doing stuff that will allow you to float comfortably at that pace. Let's say you run 56.0. A good speed session for you might be 6 x 100 @ 14 seconds with 60-90 seconds of easy jogging / walking in between. Eventually, over the course of 10 weeks, you might build up to where you can do 3-4 x 250 with 3 ish minutes of easy walking / jogging recovery at the same speed and the same effort level. Keep doing your 40 mpw training volume, tempo, cruise intervals, CV and then in 10 weeks you might be ready to actually do some focused 800m training.

Mon: 6mi @ 7:26/mi + 8x10sec Hill Sprints
Tue: 5mi @ 6:58/mi + 30min Stationary Bike + Lifting
Wed: 4.5mi @ 7:23/mi
Thur: 7mi @ 7:09/mi
Fri: 1mi wu, 3mi Rhythm tempo (17:27), 1mi cd
Sat: 10mi @ 6:48/mi (7:15 --> 6:10)
Sun: 2mi @ 6:59/mi
Total: 40min
Pretty happy with the mileage this week but still planning to build more mileage in the upcoming weeks. Speedwork was good on Monday and the Tempo wasn't very difficult on Friday more of just working a little harder and settling into a smooth rhythm. Happy with where I am at and looking forward to keep building volume and fitness.
CoachB: I really like that plan on progressing through my speed stuff in the upcoming weeks so I'll probably start implementing that kind of stuff next week.

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Sub2Hopeful wrote:
Mon: 6mi @ 7:26/mi + 8x10sec Hill Sprints
Tue: 5mi @ 6:58/mi + 30min Stationary Bike + Lifting
Wed: 4.5mi @ 7:23/mi
Thur: 7mi @ 7:09/mi
Fri: 1mi wu, 3mi Rhythm tempo (17:27), 1mi cd
Sat: 10mi @ 6:48/mi (7:15 --> 6:10)
Sun: 2mi @ 6:59/mi
Total: 40min
Pretty happy with the mileage this week but still planning to build more mileage in the upcoming weeks. Speedwork was good on Monday and the Tempo wasn't very difficult on Friday more of just working a little harder and settling into a smooth rhythm. Happy with where I am at and looking forward to keep building volume and fitness..

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I ran 1:58 in a time trial this summer and a week later ran 55.3 in a 400 TT. So it's not impossible to break 2 with a mediocre 400. However, I also ran 4:12, so it takes some mile chops to be able to do this.
Of course, it's important to work on speed (including sprints, hills, weights, plyos) as much as it fits into a general running plan.

Week of 11/23-11/29
Mon: 6.2mi @ 6:57 + Strides
Tue: AM 3mi, PM 8x200 w/200jg
Wed: 3mi @ 7:30/mi
Thur: 4mi @ 5:52/mi
Fri: Off
Sat: 11mi @ 7:30/mi
Sun: 6mi @ 7:20/mi
Total: 40mi
Volume was good but I've been lazy with cross training and lifting, need to get back on top of it

Week of 11/30-12/6
Mon: 5mi @ 7:21/mi
Tue: 6mi @ 7:19/mi
Wed: 1.25mi wu, 3mi Tempo (17:41), 1.5mi cd + 4x200
Thur: 7.1mi @ 7:21/mi
Fri: 4mi @ 7:17/mi
Sat: 6mi @ 7:15/mi
Sun: 6mi @ 7:30/mi
Total 40mi
Volume was fine again but I really need to start being more disciplined with my lifting and cross training, volume should be up to 45 next week and I'll try to be better about lifting and cross training. Tempo was pretty easy on Wednesday. Also need to be better about more specific speed sessions, long time until the Spring though.

I like your wednesday workout. You probably want another quality day in there. Something to the effect of 4-6 x 3 min fast, 1 min easy inserted into a 5-7 mile run. Whole thing should feel pretty relaxed.

Rather than beating yourself up about lifting, if you're going to add anything in, add a max speed day and then some other days with strides or relaxed 200s.

Taking last week's workouts as a starting point

Mon: 4 miles @ 7:40 ish + drills, easy build ups + 4 x 50 max comfortable speed, 2-3 min recovery, 800 CD
Tue: No Change
Wed: No Change
Thu: No Change
Fri: 4 miles @ 7:40 ish + drills, easy build ups, + 2 x 150 @ 400 RP (21 sec). Walk jog the remaining 250 of the lap for recovery. 800 CD
Sat: 7 miles with 5 x 3 on / 1 off included
Sun: 5 miles very easy.

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Sub2Hopeful wrote:
Week of 11/30-12/6
Mon: 5mi @ 7:21/mi
Tue: 6mi @ 7:19/mi
Wed: 1.25mi wu, 3mi Tempo (17:41), 1.5mi cd + 4x200
Thur: 7.1mi @ 7:21/mi
Fri: 4mi @ 7:17/mi
Sat: 6mi @ 7:15/mi
Sun: 6mi @ 7:30/mi
Total 40mi
Volume was fine again but I really need to start being more disciplined with my lifting and cross training, volume should be up to 45 next week and I'll try to be better about lifting and cross training. Tempo was pretty easy on Wednesday. Also need to be better about more specific speed sessions, long time until the Spring though.

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Haven't posted in a while but training has been going well I'll get back to weekly updates. Opened my season with a 2:10 last week but that was off of very little speed training and no specific 800m work plus I got out in like 13th and finished in 2nd so I had to run wide quite a bit and passed a lot of people so I think it's a decent season opener. I've been running 45-50mpw consistently for a while and have finally buckled down and decided I need a pure speed workout every week if I want to break 2. Recent workouts are a 29:45 5mi tempo and just today I did a speed workout of 2x200 (relaxed like 32,31) then 4x150 (21, 21, 21, 21) 4x100 (14, 14, 14, 14) then 4x60 (times irrelevant wasn't measured accurately) running a 1600, 800 double in 8 days.