(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/11/20

runrincerepeat wrote:

I think they got the Turbo wrong with putting the react on the bottom layer and the zoomx on the top layer .. it would be more stable and faster imho if they flip flopped it.

and it appears from this thread and people i have talked to ... the QC or durability varies wildly

I found that QC in the New Balance Beacons really varied, which pained me. I loved them for quicker work for a while, then bought two other pair and they SUCKED.

Allen1959,

Holy cow, that is one unique buildup to your PR! Not what I was expecting at all. I was expecting you to say some monster huge weekly mileage number. Definitely wasn't expecting to see that many consecutive marathons (all PR's)! Wow, what a journey you were on there. Certainly makes for a great story.

Thank you for the description of how you felt in your strong training runs. That sounds very familiar! I half expected you to say something like: "heavy breathing and legs burned like hell". :D

BHViking wrote:

Allen1959,

Holy cow, that is one unique buildup to your PR! Not what I was expecting at all. I was expecting you to say some monster huge weekly mileage number. Definitely wasn't expecting to see that many consecutive marathons (all PR's)! Wow, what a journey you were on there. Certainly makes for a great story.

Thank you for the description of how you felt in your strong training runs. That sounds very familiar! I half expected you to say something like: "heavy breathing and legs burned like hell". :D

BHV/Allen - Ditto holy cow!...but then again I am aware of Allen’s colorful history...mine is similar, but not as colorful. :-)

And to think I just got back from this (so different than Allen’s training experiences, yet I have never known a +15-20 on race day)...13.13 in 1:26:31 (6:35 overall pace)...in the hills...

7:15, 7:04, 6:54, 6:48, 6:45, 6:44, 6:44, 6:34, 6:29, 6:12, 6:15, 6:06, 5:53, 0:48

So, within the framework of 6:25, it is MP + 10 for the whole run, and well under MP for the last 4+. On a huge runner’s high right now...and I do not feel so bad about playing hooky yesterday.

Another upvote for the peg turbo 2. I had one pair of the originals and on my 2nd pair of the 2s. Check ebay. I got a new pair of the black/pink color for under $80 shipped.

My vote is for the Brooks Hyperion Tempo. Those shoes ROCK. Have put lots of miles on them in the last several weeks. A fast shoe...perfect for advanced flyering...

outsiderunner wrote:

... I just got back from this (so different than Allen’s training experiences, yet I have never known a +15-20 on race day)...13.13 in 1:26:31 (6:35 overall pace)...in the hills...

7:15, 7:04, 6:54, 6:48, 6:45, 6:44, 6:44, 6:34, 6:29, 6:12, 6:15, 6:06, 5:53, 0:48

So, within the framework of 6:25, it is MP + 10 for the whole run ...

Perhaps not so different. Fast-finish progression runs have often been a staple of my training. Not every day, though! And for me, that run would predict a sub-2:45 marathon. Heck, maybe it does for you, too. What was your best progression run in the lead-up to your PR marathon?

I enjoyed a nice 7.7-mile progression yesterday -- 8:15 average (9:12, 8:51, 8:36 ... 7:44, 6:50). A "natural" progression in that the effort was consistent, pace increased as I warmed up and became more comfortable. Except the last mile ... pushed hard for that.

That would be great, Allen, if I could have some of your race day magic. I had lots of super progressions leading up to my marathon PR, the big one being the 6:11-pace 20-miler I ran five weeks before the marathon at the Nat. Cap. 20-miler. Since then, I have thought that perhaps that race was too close to the marathon and too hard of an effort. I may have spent most of my fitness gains there, rather than at Richmond.

Super job on the 7.7 prog. Nice push at the end. The pace came very naturally for me today, and the faster miles at the end did not wipe me out. My thought when I was done was that I had manhandled that run.

Allen - I am thinking of putting an Allen-style finish on this cycle, and thus may take some additional rest. I am just inside of four weeks now. How much rest were you getting back then in your hey day? Running four days per week? Five?

outsiderunner wrote:I am just inside of four weeks now. How much rest were you getting back then in your hey day?

OR, keep in mind we're comparing the training of a 23-year-old vs a 51-year-old, both running at a similar pace. The latter is obviously much more talented than the former, and despite being older, has remarkable recovery powers.

Still, I think you could benefit from more rest days in the final few weeks. I only have longest weekly runs, weekly mileage notes and race times from my PR year, so I'm relying on fading memories to fill in details. I recall there were weeks I ran only a few days but I always strove for 5 or 6 days. (I took six days off completely following the first of the three marathons).

Have you included any long runs? 18+ miles? You have time for one more, I'd say. I always considered them more important than total mileage. Surprisingly, though, during the 16 weeks prior to my PR, only four long runs: 18, 26, 18, 26. Two of those, of course, were full marathons.

Yeah, your 20-mile race at 6:11 pace was incredible. Five weeks out, I don't think it hurt your marathon UNLESS it inspired you to immediately train TOO intensely, neglecting proper recovery. I would have taken a very easy week, trained hard for two, then taper.

Late post - had an interesting week last week...

57 miles

1 stolen car (from our driveway!)

two key workouts -

-6 miles- 1 off 5 on at 6:20

-13.1 run saturday - called it a "HR progression run" - first half was controlled (somewhere between marathon and >marathon pace HR target) - around a 6:20 - miles 7-11 were more M/mid-to-late HM HR target - was around a 5:50 and last two miles were "all out" - they were up a hill, about 60 feet each mile, so squeaked out a 5:58 x 2 - ended up with a 1:20:43, which funny enough is just 5 seconds off of my PR I set while training for a marathon a year ago - I think i'm in 1:17 shape which makes me happy.

runnerchef wrote:1 stolen car (from our driveway!)

Yikes! Did you get it back? Nice HM training run. I remember your sub-3 thread from last year, really enjoyed following everyone's progress.

OR -- Here are training details from my PR season (as much as I still have). Following my first two marathons the previous autumn (3:15, 2:52), I pretty much took the winter off, struggled through a 3:05 spring marathon, got more serious through the summer, then the PR fall marathons:

Week total/Longest run ... races/notes

47/12....5K 16:47

55/14

51/13....10K 34:12

62/18....20K 1:13:50

68/22...longest training run

37/14

34/09....taper week

49/26....MARATHON 2:47:30

12/12....recovery week

37/13

20/09....too busy to run

55/18...not much of a taper!

54/26....MARATHON 2:45:57

39/13....recovery week

62/16...looks like a solid week!

47/14

72/18....peak mpw, last long run

40/09....beginning taper

28/09....5K 16:04 (taper week)

62/26....MARATHON 2:40:30

great stats - this is superhelpful Allen

and no! Not yet. Its probably parked somewhere with no tires or gas....sigh.

More silly stats here.

I'm always happy to schedule a marathon, whether training or not. Gotta admit, I checked the drive time to Harrisburg when OR posted his decision. Alas, the days of same-day registration are long gone!

A favorite plan for my non-training years was to schedule three runs prior to a marathon, starting five weeks out: 12 miles then 6-day rest, 15 miles then 6-day rest, 18-20 miles and 13-day rest. They were actually "run as far as you can, then walk/run."

On marathon day, I could usually run until the 20-mile marker, then walk/ run from there. Obviously not taking things too seriously, but still loving The Marathon.

Times and my age

3:15:12 (22)

2:52:48 (22)

3:02:25 (22)

2:47:34 (23)

2:45:57 (23)

2:40:30 (23)

2:47:52 (23)

3:08:05 (24)

3:36:12 (25)

3:55:00 (26)

3:21:17 (27)

3:39:32 (27)

4:05:31 (29)

3:36:33 (30)

3:31:41 (31)

3:20:47 (32)

3:26:25 (33)

4:10:54 (34)

4:07:42 (35)

3:35:59 (38)

3:12:46 (40)

3:48:13 (40)

4:29:34 (41)

2:56:03 (43)

3:25:27 (57)

3:07:23 (58)

The last one was statistically "the Best," based on age-grading -- 2:36 "equivalent."

Allen - Thank you for all of the information. It is helpful. Yes, I have run a recent 18+ run...18.5 at 6:53 overall, done on 10/2. I will take your advice and look to do one more long run on Sat., which is three weeks before the race. Will shoot for 18-20. I absolutely agree with you about the importance of long runs. I, too, rank it above weekly mileage. Why do you think I rack up so many double-digit runs? And then, ideally, I like to add a true LR each week or so. That, my friend, is long-distance training. Piling up lots of shorter runs will not cut it for the marathon.

How is everyone's week going? Any races or TTs coming up this weekend? RunnerChef... what the hell happened to your car? That is nuts.

I am really digging the consistent 40 degree weather in the Boston area right now. It is crazy how much faster everything is all of a sudden vs. the summer.

Nothing major here... looks to s a bit of down week mileage wise again but good workouts.

Announced that HM I was looking at got the permitting etc (dec 12th) so as long as nothing drastic happens it’s on the calendar so will pivot to a lot of threshold work the next 8 weeks and see what happens. Hilly course but most the hills look front loaded. Good to have sometime on the schedule to keep me motivated to run well.

That's pretty sweet. T workouts are the ones I look forward to most honestly in Daniels.

I had a 5x1600T + 6x200R this week which was great.

Any sense of a goal/target?

T work is what I dislike most honestly .. but it gives the best post workout feelings. Ummmm Break 1:20 would be a good goal I am thinking. It has 311 foot of gain but its mostly in the front and middle with a downhill finish last 1.75 miles.

thanks - someone just took it from the driveway...stupid us left keys in it UGHHHH

lock your car! Its been happening a lot in our area and its considered "safe"