What does Cheptegei have to do to become the GOAT

The marathon is no longer a niche apart from the track in the goat discussion. I believe the goat distance runner needs good marathon cred too. So, in my opinion what he needs is:

5k/10k Oly double

A couple WMM wins

Sub 2:02 marathon pb

I don't think he needs the marathon wr but his pb may need to be lower than above based on tech in the future.

dontbestupid wrote:

Banana Bread wrote:

We're only making plans, for Nigel. We only want what's best for him. We're only making plans, for Nigel. Nigel just needs that helping hand.

Joshua will never be Bekele. Joshua is taking a dump on this sport and has more EPO upstairs then there is sugar on a candy cane

everyone knows bekele was doped up to his fu**ing face

+2

Let s appreciate that he tried what Mo Farah always shied away from.

And...forget about the lights. I am not even sure he looks at them and other people could use them also...I don't recall seeing Shadrack going sub 27 by the way...

John Wesley Harding wrote:

3000m runner wrote:

Yeah he just needs the 5000/10000 Olympic gold double.

He needs this but I think he needs more than this, even if it’s just years of amassing accolades running at a slightly lower level than in the last two.

The quickest route to arguable GOAT status would be winning the world half in a sub-58 WR, then breaking the 3k WR and winning the Olympic 5k/10k double in dominant fashion next year.

I think wins are at least equally as important as times. Even if broke the 3k record tomorrow, he would not be the Goat to me.

He needs to win a couple world championships, some Olympics, world cross, etc.

The sport of track and field is not any different than any other sport. The main objective is to win.

If he can’t win championships, it’s the equivalent of a team going 16-0 in the football season and losing the super bowl. Historic, but you can’t be the best of all time if someone can beat you head to head.

From the shadows wrote:

Let s appreciate that he tried what Mo Farah always shied away from.

And...forget about the lights. I am not even sure he looks at them and other people could use them also...I don't recall seeing Shadrack going sub 27 by the way...

Other people can use them now. What would bekele have run with lights in his 26:17? To be fair, I think Bekele would still be the record holder if he had lights.

While winning golds is important, I actually think that not losing is more important to GOAT status. We would look at kipchoge much much differently if he had the same number of wins over the last few years but am equal number of losses. I think Cheptegei needs at least a 4-5 year peak where he very rarely loses and gets some hardware as well. Alternative path would be a 3 year peak winning the major championships followed by a couple down years and a resurgence to domimate in the marathon for 3-5 years.

He's got the WR's, now all he has to do is

1. Win several more Olympic and World golds at 5k and 10k

2. Dominate XC for the better part of a decade.

3. Simultaneously hold a place on the Top 3 list for 2-mile, 5k, 10k, and marathon.

4. Continue to run at the absolute top of the game for another 23 years.

Bekele has the medals, range, records, and longevity. Every metric you can imagine for greatness in the sport, Bekele has. Its a big pair of shoes to fill.

Cheptegei is a frontrunner with the talent of Bekele and the work ethic of Kipchoge. Hope to enjoy this for the next decade! Once he is done, we can resume this thread.

goats don't lose wrote:

While winning golds is important, I actually think that not losing is more important to GOAT status. We would look at kipchoge much much differently if he had the same number of wins over the last few years but am equal number of losses. I think Cheptegei needs at least a 4-5 year peak where he very rarely loses and gets some hardware as well. Alternative path would be a 3 year peak winning the major championships followed by a couple down years and a resurgence to domimate in the marathon for 3-5 years.

To be the GOAT, you need a long time at the top. Showing up and dominating for 2 years makes you a Daniel Komen type guy. Do it for a decade and your Geb. And in reality we tend to just call the latest guy with the fastest times the GOAT. In 30 years when people are running 12:25 and 25:50, Bekele will be like Viren who people consider great but not the GOAT. Think about how quickly Morceli (i.e a guy who totally dominated the 1500m for like 7 years) ceased to be the GOAT.

I almost wonder if Cheptegei's accomplishments puts Gebrselassie back over Bekele.

Simply getting two world records doesn't make you the greatest of all time.

It makes you the fastest of all time for those events.

He'd need about a 10 year run of winning championships to get there.

Geb broke a lot more records than Bekele did.

They both had 6 10,000m titles.

Geb shattered records, not merely broke them. 11 seconds off the 5000 record in one race. Dropped the 10,000 record 30 seconds over a few years.

First marathon ever under 2:04.

The 5 and 10 records were 12:58 and 26:52 when he got his first record. He brought them down to 12:39 and 26:22.

Won world titles in 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2000.

Had a blistering kick.

He won his first 10,000 title in 1993 and his PR at the time was 27:30.

In 2012 he ran 27:20! That's 20 years of world class times in the same event.

Who runs faster at age 39 then age 20? And was world champion at age 20.

No. Cheptegei is not the greatest distance runner of all time.

Gotta keep winning year after year after year.

I doubt people were proclaiming Bekele GOAT in 2004 with similar accomplishments to current Cheptegei...probably more accomplished actually

He did have both WRs

Olympic gold and silver

WC gold and bronze

6 x-country titles.

Bekele continued to dominate the next 5 years on the track and x-country. although I know this year is different but Bekele also used to race a lot which is underappreciated. from what I remember, every golden league he'd race and had extremely long win streaks in non-championship races as well

It does not matter how many golds he gets. All the best runners have moved to the marathon.

At least that's what you've all being saying about Mo for years

colorunner123 wrote:

2021: Double Olympic Gold 5000 and 10000

2022: Double WC Gold 5000 and 10000

2023: Double WC Gold 5000 and 10000

2024: Double Olympic Gold 5000 and 10000

The above would make him the GOAT in my opinion. If he adds a marathon WR or Olympic gold medal, so much the better.

I don't think it takes all that. Lets say he doubles up at the Olympics next year, then switches to roads and gets the half and marathon world records, maybe adds another XC championship, I think you'd have to put him right there with the other GOATS. The longer he can perform at a top level, the easier this argument will be to make.

Due to scheduling, he can't win as many XC titles as KB, and the 10000 just might not even be around in championships as an event...if diamond league is anything to judge by.

He's currently Daniel Komen. He's got a lot of work to do to be in the GOAT discussion.

Nah, KB is still the goat. You make a damn good case, but KB had way more golds than Gheb between outdoor, indoor and XC (20 total to be exact).

Chep’s Dream Future 2.0

2019: 10k WC Gold, World XC

2020: 5k/10k WRs, World Half

2021: 5k/10k Olympic Gold, World XC

2022: 5k/10k WC Gold, World Half, 2Mile WR

2023: 5k/10k WC Gold, World XC, 3000 WR

2024: 5k/10k Olympic Gold, World Half

2025: 10k WC Gold, skips XC for London 2:02

2026: 57 Half WR at World Half, Berlin WR attempt

2027: 10k WC Gold, World XC, another marathon WR

2028: 10k/Marathon Olympic Gold

6x OG Gold, 7x WC Gold, 4x WRs, 4x XC, 4x Half, 3x WMM wins.

After 2028 at age 32 he could chase Kipchoge’s sheer number of wins since that would be the only thing left. This also assumes that he really focuses on speed from ‘21 to ‘24 to get the middle distance records before moving up in 2025.

The toughest thing about this run would be the 5000s from ‘21 to ‘24, because there are so many strong and fast Ethiopians.

PRs by 2028:

1500: 3:31.7 (2022)

OneM: 3:50.1 (2022)

3000: 7:19 (2023)

TwoM: 7:56 (2022)

5000: 12:32 (2023)

(moves up in distance)

10000: 26:05 (2025)

half: 57:27 (2026)

full: 1:59:37 (2027)

ienjoyracing wrote:

5000 and 10000 world records, it almost doesn’t get much better than that, so does this mean that Bekele is not the goat anymore? Bekele never had marathon wr and yet he secured almost unanimous goat recognition, so now that Cheptegei has the records, is he the goat? Or does he need one more record for a true changing of the guard, like perhaps the 3000m, or half or full marathon. I think Olympic gold is so in the bag it’s not even worth talking about, but would that be enough?

5 years of gold medals now plus notable wins.

But I think Rhonex kipruto has something for him in the 10000 and the 5000 is stacked too.

Ehh. 11 titles could be equivalent to at least 4 titles every other year but not just 2 or 3.

Cheptegei needs to not barely win these races either. He needs to smash some of these world titles kind of like sifan Hassan in recent years.

But if he gets say

5 10k titles

4 5k titles

He will only be in conversation. It's tough to be more exceptional than the exceptional.

OR if he had a rudisha like performance that could boost his reputation as well

Already if :

- He wins 2 Gold Olympics medals in 2021

- None of his records are broken by 2022

- Win almost every race he is in in front of the best of his current main challengers

- Improve Half WR

___

If "only" that happens he will already be in the discussion to be the GOAT.