I find it very difficult to run slow

If 7:30/mile feels comfortable, why do you think you "should" be running 9 minute miles? Go with what your body tells you, not some formula you got off the internet. It's worked for me since long before the internet existed.

7:30/mile is about right for 1:25 half. 9 minute miles will not get you under 1:30 in a race

Nutsack McGee wrote:

electron1661 wrote:

Do most of my runs between 7-8:30 pace. 34 yrs old. New Apple Watch. My 5k recently was 193-203 HR. Got up to 190 today by running a quarter mile in 1:45. You think the Apple Watch is wrong?

Yep. All of that sounds wrong. Common sense goes a long way.

Yeah ... you are wearing it too loose, and possibly down too far on your wrist, so it’s grabbing your cadence instead of your HR. Common issue w/Optical HR.

For the OP - sure, it feels easy, but it’s kind of an ego thing. My perspective really changed when I started messing around with HR, as some folks have pointed out, and when I started to tag along with my wife on her long runs. She’s a 10:30 miler. I found out that, shocker, I could run that slow, and, bigger shocker, I got a nice bump in fitness from doing an extra two hours of running a week at a pace so slow that it didn’t really make me tired.

Slartibartfast wrote:

For the OP - sure, it feels easy, but it’s kind of an ego thing. My perspective really changed when I started messing around with HR, as some folks have pointed out, and when I started to tag along with my wife on her long runs. She’s a 10:30 miler. I found out that, shocker, I could run that slow, and, bigger shocker, I got a nice bump in fitness from doing an extra two hours of running a week at a pace so slow that it didn’t really make me tired.

Sure but the question is does the OP want to spend another 2 hours/week training? It is easy to say. It is another to do. If he wants to spend more time running but can't, slow down.

in my opinion a strict "recovery pace" is kinda dumb. yeah a general rule is like 2ish minutes slower than 5k pace but running sub 6 for 3 miles doesnt mean you cant run 7 miles in 7:15's. there are elites who run 7:30's for mileage and high school kids running sub 7. for easy days, trust your "feel good gear" as you put it. its probably not wrong.

Running slower is easy, just decrease your cadence.

why is this hard wrote:

I know I'm supposed to run my easy runs in like 8:30-9:00ish pace, but I really struggle to run that slowly. My natural "feels easy" gear is around 7:15-7:30, and when I go slower than that I really feel like I'm barely even running.

And yet I'm not super fast overall, like 18m 5k and 1:25 half.

What's my problem?

"Like" 18m 5k and 1:25 half, or have you actually done that?

why is this hard wrote:

I know I'm supposed to run my easy runs in like 8:30-9:00ish pace, but I really struggle to run that slowly. My natural "feels easy" gear is around 7:15-7:30, and when I go slower than that I really feel like I'm barely even running.

And yet I'm not super fast overall, like 18m 5k and 1:25 half.

What's my problem?

Rephrase.... you find very easy to underachieve....

Actually done it

This was the other side of the question...should I actually just be faster. I’m 36 with a kid and started running “seriously” about 10 years ago, so likely reaching the end of my PR years, but who knows.

why is this hard wrote:

I know I'm supposed to run my easy runs in like 8:30-9:00ish pace, but I really struggle to run that slowly. My natural "feels easy" gear is around 7:15-7:30, and when I go slower than that I really feel like I'm barely even running.

And yet I'm not super fast overall, like 18m 5k and 1:25 half.

What's my problem?

Inside you there is a fast runner trying to escape.

I'm mid 40s and on a good day run similar times as the OP. I used to obsess about HR, easy pace, fcking cadence bla bla bla friggin endless stats. Now I think fck it, i'm going to run based on how I feel and finish feeling like I have actually done something with my time. Sometimes I go out too fast so stop and walk a bit, then go again. Rather do that than shuffle about like some geriatric escaping from a old peoples home.

Plodding about staring at my watch trying to keep it at 8.30 pace, or at 135 etc is ridiculous if you think about it, plus its a dangerous game where you get obsessive about what some number on your watch is saying, slippery slope. Old trope i know but really you gotta' just run baby.

why is this hard wrote:

This was the other side of the question...should I actually just be faster. I’m 36 with a kid and started running “seriously” about 10 years ago, so likely reaching the end of my PR years, but who knows.

You have a good 20 years to improve those times mate.

tagabukid wrote:7:30/mile is about right for 1:25 half. 9 minute miles will not get you under 1:30 in a race

When I was at my best 10-15 years ago, my HM best was mid-1:13. I ran a significant proportion of my easy mileage at that time with my significant other at ~ 9-10 minutes per mile. I also ran a couple / few mornings a week with a buddy of mine who was a couple of years removed from being a 2:15 marathoner. We never ran faster than 8:00-30/mile on those runs.

The fact you find easy running to be difficult is a pretty clear sign that you are underdeveloped aerobically. Inexperienced runners will tend to run their "easy" every day mileage at around what works out to be their best possible marathon pace. For an aerobically fit runner, running M-pace is brisk work, and easy runs ought to be run at about 45-60s/mile slower than M-pace, or slower. Daniels' charts advise a somewhat faster easy pace range.

Anyway, the short answer is you are undertrained.

If you want to run slow, just run with slow people.

Use running slow like a form drill:

It's a midway between running normally and jogging on the spot.

When u first run with slow people you find yourself jogging on the spot to wait for them and then accelerating away, then later when you adjust it becomes like a mixture of the two.

HITHEREYOU wrote:

I'm mid 40s and on a good day run similar times as the OP. I used to obsess about HR, easy pace, fcking cadence bla bla bla friggin endless stats. Now I think fck it, i'm going to run based on how I feel and finish feeling like I have actually done something with my time. Sometimes I go out too fast so stop and walk a bit, then go again. Rather do that than shuffle about like some geriatric escaping from a old peoples home.

Plodding about staring at my watch trying to keep it at 8.30 pace, or at 135 etc is ridiculous if you think about it, plus its a dangerous game where you get obsessive about what some number on your watch is saying, slippery slope. Old trope i know but really you gotta' just run baby.

I completely agree with the sentiment that you don't need to look at any number for recovery runs or easy runs. Just go out and run at what feels like an easy pace.

I disagree with this guy's overall training philosophy where he might go out to fast every day and need to walk part of it. You're never going to improve very much or get anywhere near your potential if you just go out and run a tempo everyday. You will achieve moderate improvement until you hit an indefinite plateau if you train like this. You'll probably end up injured too.

The only way to get away with the tempo run every run strategy requires:

1. Never running higher mileage because you wouldn't be able to recover.

AND

2. Never actually running hard workouts that would help you get faster.

AND

3. Stubborn impatience that prevents following a training plan in a disciplined manner.

AND

4. Slow tempo runs. Maybe at a pace like marathon pace instead of tempo pace.

This strategy would probably work well for the type of person who values distance over everything though: someone who is more impressed by a slow marathon than a fast 5k or mile.

FutureOldHead wrote:

in my opinion a strict "recovery pace" is kinda dumb. yeah a general rule is like 2ish minutes slower than 5k pace but running sub 6 for 3 miles doesnt mean you cant run 7 miles in 7:15's. there are elites who run 7:30's for mileage and high school kids running sub 7. for easy days, trust your "feel good gear" as you put it. its probably not wrong.

Probably the best post so far. Think about two excellent HS runners with roughly similar ability - Drew Hunter and Grant Fisher.

Hunter ran 60-70 mpw, with easy runs done at 7:15/mile.

Fisher ran 40-50 mpw, with easy runs done at 6:00/mile. He also did harder workouts than Hunter.

Both were in ~sub 4/13 high shape during that time. Both had the same training stimulus/effect, at totally different mileage and easy run pace.

Sure, there is the odd guy like Solinsky who doesn't look like a typical distance runner and got a massive body, and runs 90-100 mpw at faster than 6:00/mi in HS, but these are the exceptions.

FutureOldHead wrote:

in my opinion a strict "recovery pace" is kinda dumb. yeah a general rule is like 2ish minutes slower than 5k pace but running sub 6 for 3 miles doesnt mean you cant run 7 miles in 7:15's. there are elites who run 7:30's for mileage and high school kids running sub 7. for easy days, trust your "feel good gear" as you put it. its probably not wrong.

Sure but those high school kids are doing 6 miles at sub 7 and running 40mpw while the elite guys are running 10 miles 2x day for some 120mpw at 8000ft:) There is a realm of some what sane easy run paces from 5k+90s to 5k+180s which most people fall into and where you get roughly the same training effect. Some days you feel a bit tired and run slower and others you feel fresh and run a bit quicker.

It would be really interesting to know why AlSal pushed Farah to do his easy runs faster (From like 7 min pace to 5:45. Or the slow end of easy to the fast end). Most of the studies I have seen suggest that it makes little difference so it would be interesting to know if there is any evidence to back it up. I know a several coaches and a few exercise physiologists also push people towards the fast end of easy but I haven't seen any papers about that.

The part that gets sketchy is the very fast daily run people who are doing like 5k pace +40-60s. A few people have run fast off things like this (See Ron Clarke) but they seem like the exception. I assume part of it was they rarely did super hard workouts but even then running MP every day seemed like something that few can do and recover well from.

Just to clarify, 'going out too fast and then walking' is most definitely not my training philosophy. I was just pointing out that some days you just gotta have some fun, see what is easy what isn't..easy pace isn't a number in a fking LCD screen on your wrist, that was basically my point.